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on this episode of skeptico

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show about arguing and and then you guys

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time seems like the value of having you

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here I think my value as a teacher is to

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teach you how to learn I think you're

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telling us we should teach ourselves I

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don't think you're gonna learn if I tell

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you how to think I think if you tell us

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what you think then we'll learn that I

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thought you should break into groups but

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you failed to learn that so your theory

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even arguing with people you like

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use the term cranky you said he was

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cranky in my experience yeah you can put

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him in frankly yeah but probably I'd say

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high probability of crazy but you need

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to read it and you need to I I do I do I

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do I do needles I wouldn't call somebody

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cranky if I'd not read their word

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that first step was from Jill McHale and

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community and the second one was from

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today's guest Anthony Peake who I

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genuinely like and respect even though I

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think he stretches the metaphor a little

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bit too far he always brings a lot of

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good research to the table and I

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certainly like that

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welcome to skeptico where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics I'm your host Alex Karis

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and today we welcome Anthony Peake back

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to skeptico

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Tony has a new book a new book is an old

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an old book that is a new book but it's

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it's just interesting I'm looking

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forward to diving into this with him the

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book is cheating the ferryman the

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Revolutionary science of life after

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death the sequel to the best-selling is

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their life after death so that's the new

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book I I gotta figure out how you got so

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much in that title on Amazon they let

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you do that that's great man good for

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you Tony welcome back thanks for being

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here yeah I always enjoy Alex all

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discussions I always find them the most

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stimulating I do basically because you

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do your research and you really do know

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your stuff and what I always admire

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about you is that you don't toe the line

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if somebody says something you don't

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agree with you'll tell them and I think

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that's profoundly important you know but

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funnily enough in terms of the the

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actual title in there it's extraordinary

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isn't it this isn't I don't do this is

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my Publishers I I didn't even know

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they'd done this so clearly it's quite a

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mouthful isn't it really that's good

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it's good it it kind of brings it

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brings us around because that's what the

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book does is it brings us around to the

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idea that here's a guy who's had this

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Theory he's been working on this theory

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for a relatively long time has

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synthesized a lot of different sources

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has let me pull up on the screen for

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anyone who's watching written a bunch of

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other books

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and those are just some of them on the

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website anthonypeak.com you can also

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find them on Amazon you know the last

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time you were on skeptico was 447

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really enjoyed the chat and it was kind

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of centered around this book The Hidden

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Universe an investigation into non-human

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intelligences

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really another great book you know I I

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mentioned this the last time we spoke

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and I want to mention it again because

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what you do is really quite unique and

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what you've been able to kind of muster

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and just kind of plow your way through

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is this non-ordained kind of researcher

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of Consciousness which I think is part

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of this thing like they have people like

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I gotta say this because I you know this

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is going to be a true Socratic skeptico

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kind of thing I don't agree with uh all

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your all your theories but I really

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admire and I think if it was a more just

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World

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academically intellectually

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we would think about you in a much

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different way you would have multiple

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phds you'd be kind of much more sought

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after in terms of the way you're

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synthesizing this information but that's

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never going to happen because from Jump

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Street you are counter very counter

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fundamentally to the whole Consciousness

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biological robot meaningless universe

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and you know if you're a Liverpool guy

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and you're just kind of a street guy

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you're not afraid to say hey that's just

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obviously so we can kind of

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dismiss with that and now let's explore

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this let's explore that and you know the

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fact that you've been able to gain any

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traction at all

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it is is amazing let alone write these

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really fantastically interesting books

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that are packed with solid research

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solid you know peer-reviewed stuff

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that's coming onto the scene and you are

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then synthesizing into your theory so

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that's what you do and I'm so glad

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you're out there doing it

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thanks Alex I mean one of the things

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that I find is that and I've used this

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argument many many times I mean I have

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been offered places to do it do phds on

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the back of my research and indeed over

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the years I've been offered the

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opportunity to do phds in various

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different subjects I mean initially when

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I started off I was planning to do a PhD

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in Italian Renaissance Art and

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particularly the paintings of a guy

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called Puro de la Francesca which you've

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developed my interest in um esotericism

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because I was interested in the esoteric

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aspects of a lot of the Renaissance

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painters and the symbolism within the

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paintings and of course at that period

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you had people like pico de merendola

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you had various other philosophers and

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everything else as well in in Florence

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and various other cities then I had the

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opportunity to do a PhD in business

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management after I did my postgraduate

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course at London School of economics

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but I don't I always argued that it's

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not possible to do a PhD in the areas

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I'm interested in because it's too

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diverse it's too wide in order to to

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write the kind of stuff I write about

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you'd need to have a PhD in neurology

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astrophysics quantum physics

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neurochemistry so what I do is I try to

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synthesize all these things and bring

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them together in in a way that people

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can understand and appreciate because I

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think there's too much going on here

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that we know that quantum physics is

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telling us universities are far far

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stranger place than anything we can

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possibly understand and in this case I

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particularly I I quote somebody like I

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don't know Richard Feynman one of the

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world's leading Quantum physicists and

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he said to his students and he said you

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know when you first doing when you first

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do your courses on quantum physics don't

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try to understand it don't go down the

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rabbit hole because there lies Insanity

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we don't know

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what is going on but we know it works

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and this is the thing of course quantum

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physics is the most accurate fall of

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science we've ever had in history you

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know it's accurate to I think somebody

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said one hers length in terms of

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statistics one hair's length across the

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Atlantic in terms of distance that's how

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accurate it is but nobody understands

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fully what it means now I think the only

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way you can ever appreciate fully what

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quantum mechanics really means is to

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start applying the cosmology to it

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applying the the the philosophy behind

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it and in the book this is what I try to

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do I have whole sections on vedanta

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I have sections on kashmiri shavism I

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have sections on the great philosophers

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in his historical times who argued that

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that the relationship between

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Consciousness and external reality is Is

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Not What It Seems you know there's a

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term that people use it's called naive

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realism the idea that there is a

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one-to-one relationship between what my

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brain tells me is out there and what is

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physically out there you know there's

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all these things you know when you when

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you when you first come across the

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discovery that everything that seems to

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99.999999999996 empty space

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and the only things that are physically

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solid are Point particles such as

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electrons and quarks both of which

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appoint particles which means they have

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no extension in space

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so where does reality disappear to I

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came across a quotation recently that I

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really loved where uh I think it was

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Rutherford discovered the the nucleus of

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the atom at Manchester University when

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he discovered that the vast part of the

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atom was empty space the next morning

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when he woke up he was terrified to step

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out of bed in case he fell through the

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floor

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now this shows exactly how strange

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reality is and that's all I write about

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you know I I don't do I believe my

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hypothesis I don't know I don't know

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whether I believe it all I know is that

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the science

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points me in that direction

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so uh great that's kind of a good segue

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into

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the theory because since this book is

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kind of uh I don't know what you'd call

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it a reboot recap of this body work

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tell us about the basics tell us about

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the ferryman who is the ferryman and

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tell us about the Damon who's the Damon

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and you know just thumbnail sketch I

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think that's important and I think it

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you know even before you get there you

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kind of sketched out some of your

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background

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take us back even further if you will

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just how did you even

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develop as a person into you know in

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thinking weird creature I am now oh no

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to the amazing creature into the Bold

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creature who says

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I'm going to take a year off of my

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profession I'm going to risk not having

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any money being broke because I ought to

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write a book you know what I mean and

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then write it and I didn't even know

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what I was going to write it about that

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was the extraordinary thing I mean I you

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know I have a very understanding wife

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and she said look you really want to

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write this book okay you know write the

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book take a year out just take it out

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and the first day when I was sitting in

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front of the screen you know those

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writers say this the blank screen or the

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white page crisis and you go right I've

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now got to start you know and I'm I'm a

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terrible procrastinator I find all

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things to do with them the thing I'm

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supposed to be doing you know I'll

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listen to music I'll do all kinds of

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things but what happened was he was

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quite curious in that I was sitting in

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front of the screen and I as I was doing

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so I started the the the end of my

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finger starts to go dead and my lips

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started to tingle and I realized I was

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having a migraine Aura now I've

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experienced all my life what's

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technically called classic migraine

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which is you don't necessarily get a

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headache but what you do get is you get

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the aura State this kind of weird

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00:10:48,829 --> 00:10:46,440
disembodied

274
00:10:50,870 --> 00:10:48,839
weird hallucinatory

275
00:10:52,009 --> 00:10:50,880
transitory state that you end up in and

276
00:10:54,050 --> 00:10:52,019
you know you're going to have a

277
00:10:56,509 --> 00:10:54,060
full-blown migraine soon afterwards

278
00:10:58,250 --> 00:10:56,519
and mine starts in that way where I get

279
00:10:59,750 --> 00:10:58,260
tingling in my fingers and then my

280
00:11:01,550 --> 00:10:59,760
eyesight starts to go I start going

281
00:11:03,889 --> 00:11:01,560
blind I get white out it's called a

282
00:11:05,389 --> 00:11:03,899
scotoma and it moves across from the

283
00:11:07,190 --> 00:11:05,399
center of my vision right across since

284
00:11:10,130 --> 00:11:07,200
literally I cannot see

285
00:11:12,290 --> 00:11:10,140
and this started but what was uncanny

286
00:11:14,810 --> 00:11:12,300
was that at the time at the time I also

287
00:11:18,350 --> 00:11:14,820
had the most incredible sensation of

288
00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:18,360
deja vu that I was that I had at some

289
00:11:23,630 --> 00:11:21,120
time in my past sat in front of that

290
00:11:26,509 --> 00:11:23,640
computer screen in my home in Horsham in

291
00:11:29,569 --> 00:11:26,519
West Sussex down in here in the UK and

292
00:11:31,009 --> 00:11:29,579
when I came out of the aura State I

293
00:11:33,050 --> 00:11:31,019
realized what I wanted to write about I

294
00:11:36,170 --> 00:11:33,060
wanted to understand exactly what Deja

295
00:11:38,509 --> 00:11:36,180
Vu was and that was the abiding driving

296
00:11:41,269 --> 00:11:38,519
force now just a little bit of a

297
00:11:44,930 --> 00:11:41,279
background story I'm from a very working

298
00:11:48,370 --> 00:11:44,940
class background I'm a regular guy but I

299
00:11:51,290 --> 00:11:48,380
I was gifted I suppose with

300
00:11:54,829 --> 00:11:51,300
peculiar memory I've always had this

301
00:11:56,629 --> 00:11:54,839
peculiar virtually eidetic memory uh

302
00:11:59,090 --> 00:11:56,639
where virtually sometimes you know I can

303
00:12:00,590 --> 00:11:59,100
I can remember something I don't even

304
00:12:03,650 --> 00:12:00,600
have to go through the recall facility

305
00:12:05,329 --> 00:12:03,660
it just comes into my mind or I'll be

306
00:12:07,389 --> 00:12:05,339
able to read it I mean I've read the

307
00:12:10,129 --> 00:12:07,399
Encyclopedia Britannica from end to end

308
00:12:12,829 --> 00:12:10,139
and sometimes I will think of something

309
00:12:14,269 --> 00:12:12,839
and a concept and I'll see the page in

310
00:12:15,889 --> 00:12:14,279
front of me from the encyclopedia

311
00:12:18,050 --> 00:12:15,899
botanic and I can read down it I can

312
00:12:21,170 --> 00:12:18,060
look at it which means I've never been

313
00:12:23,150 --> 00:12:21,180
beaten in Trivial Pursuit ever beat me

314
00:12:25,129 --> 00:12:23,160
in Trivial Pursuit I've already watched

315
00:12:27,410 --> 00:12:25,139
you on on your team everybody wants you

316
00:12:29,090 --> 00:12:27,420
on their team I I used to actually earn

317
00:12:31,310 --> 00:12:29,100
a living on quizzes when I was a period

318
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:31,320
of unemployed I used to be in quiz teams

319
00:12:35,389 --> 00:12:33,600
and I used to drain the quiz machines in

320
00:12:37,730 --> 00:12:35,399
the pubs and things because it's just

321
00:12:39,230 --> 00:12:37,740
the peculiar thing I can do but it meant

322
00:12:42,590 --> 00:12:39,240
that over the years and I've always been

323
00:12:45,889 --> 00:12:42,600
interested in unusual phenomena ever

324
00:12:49,970 --> 00:12:45,899
since I first read John Keel way back in

325
00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:49,980
the late 1960s and I then read a British

326
00:12:55,550 --> 00:12:52,560
part work called man myth and Magic when

327
00:12:57,889 --> 00:12:55,560
I was about 10 or 11. and this made me

328
00:12:59,870 --> 00:12:57,899
decide that I when and if I got to

329
00:13:01,670 --> 00:12:59,880
University and at that stage it wasn't

330
00:13:03,470 --> 00:13:01,680
looking that promising because I'd

331
00:13:06,170 --> 00:13:03,480
failed my 11 plus I was a secondary

332
00:13:08,329 --> 00:13:06,180
modern school but I managed to get to

333
00:13:10,970 --> 00:13:08,339
the local grammar school when I was 15

334
00:13:12,970 --> 00:13:10,980
and I flew at the grammar school because

335
00:13:15,710 --> 00:13:12,980
it was it was it was my kind of

336
00:13:17,870 --> 00:13:15,720
environment I was very sporty so they

337
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:17,880
liked sporty kids I was an athlete so

338
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:21,120
they loved that but on top of that I had

339
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:24,480
this way with words and I I could write

340
00:13:28,009 --> 00:13:26,160
and everything else as well and I did

341
00:13:30,530 --> 00:13:28,019
phenomenally well and I did very well at

342
00:13:34,069 --> 00:13:30,540
my a levels and from four years of being

343
00:13:36,170 --> 00:13:34,079
a no Mark kid at a a really rough School

344
00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:36,180
I was I was I got a place at one of

345
00:13:39,470 --> 00:13:37,380
Britain's top universities the

346
00:13:41,449 --> 00:13:39,480
University of Warwick and also to read

347
00:13:42,949 --> 00:13:41,459
sociology and history which again was

348
00:13:44,990 --> 00:13:42,959
stretching myself because I was doing

349
00:13:46,670 --> 00:13:45,000
two degrees in parallel and I chose

350
00:13:48,650 --> 00:13:46,680
sociology and history because the

351
00:13:50,090 --> 00:13:48,660
sociology I was interested in because it

352
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:50,100
gave me the opportunity to study

353
00:13:54,769 --> 00:13:52,800
religion it gave me the opportunity to

354
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:54,779
study Cults and religious cults and

355
00:13:58,730 --> 00:13:56,160
belief systems

356
00:14:00,829 --> 00:13:58,740
so I was able to dive into the sociology

357
00:14:02,750 --> 00:14:00,839
of what it means when people are

358
00:14:04,730 --> 00:14:02,760
Jehovah's Witnesses and when people

359
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:04,740
suffer from cognitive dissonance when

360
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:06,720
Jesus doesn't come when they expect him

361
00:14:10,670 --> 00:14:08,399
to this kind of thing so I'm very much

362
00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:10,680
focused in on that and in terms of my

363
00:14:16,430 --> 00:14:13,920
history I again focused in on the

364
00:14:19,189 --> 00:14:16,440
history of esoteric belief systems and I

365
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:19,199
was particularly interested in the crazy

366
00:14:24,290 --> 00:14:21,120
strange religious movements that came

367
00:14:26,030 --> 00:14:24,300
out of the 30 Years War in in the 17th

368
00:14:28,129 --> 00:14:26,040
century in Germany and there were some

369
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:28,139
very peculiar religious groups coming up

370
00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:29,519
then because of course it was the

371
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:31,380
breakout from the rule of Catholicism

372
00:14:35,870 --> 00:14:33,360
and everybody was reading the Bible and

373
00:14:37,730 --> 00:14:35,880
interpreting it in their own way and of

374
00:14:39,889 --> 00:14:37,740
course it was then in the vernacular and

375
00:14:40,970 --> 00:14:39,899
the Vulgate so people could read the

376
00:14:43,129 --> 00:14:40,980
Bible and they came up with their own

377
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:43,139
interpretations so this fascinated me

378
00:14:47,449 --> 00:14:44,639
but of course there was no real

379
00:14:49,490 --> 00:14:47,459
opportunities and when I got my degree

380
00:14:51,710 --> 00:14:49,500
and I wanted to do post-grad

381
00:14:53,629 --> 00:14:51,720
the only really opportunity for me to do

382
00:14:54,949 --> 00:14:53,639
postgraduates in business so I went to

383
00:14:57,590 --> 00:14:54,959
the London School of Economics to do a

384
00:15:00,769 --> 00:14:57,600
postgraduate course in in in industrial

385
00:15:02,990 --> 00:15:00,779
relations and labor law which I then did

386
00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:03,000
and and then I started a career within

387
00:15:07,009 --> 00:15:05,279
Human Resources management and

388
00:15:09,230 --> 00:15:07,019
compensation and benefits specializing

389
00:15:11,449 --> 00:15:09,240
in compensation benefits but all the

390
00:15:13,129 --> 00:15:11,459
time I was continually reading all the

391
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:13,139
time I was reading books on the subject

392
00:15:16,189 --> 00:15:14,639
you can see from the books behind me

393
00:15:18,110 --> 00:15:16,199
people turn around to me and say you

394
00:15:21,650 --> 00:15:18,120
haven't read all those books I actually

395
00:15:23,930 --> 00:15:21,660
have you know and it meant that when I

396
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:23,940
had the opportunity to write a book it

397
00:15:27,470 --> 00:15:25,199
was already in there

398
00:15:29,389 --> 00:15:27,480
but I didn't know my Daemon and we'll

399
00:15:32,269 --> 00:15:29,399
come into the Damon in a minute my Damon

400
00:15:35,629 --> 00:15:32,279
had led me from my various earliest age

401
00:15:38,269 --> 00:15:35,639
my own higher self had led me to read

402
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:38,279
the right things in order for when I sat

403
00:15:43,370 --> 00:15:42,240
in that room in 1999 in Horsham I was

404
00:15:45,470 --> 00:15:43,380
ready to go

405
00:15:46,970 --> 00:15:45,480
and what happened was he was like you

406
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:46,980
know young there's the youngin concept

407
00:15:51,470 --> 00:15:49,199
of the library angel I found this was

408
00:15:53,870 --> 00:15:51,480
happening I was finding the books I

409
00:15:56,329 --> 00:15:53,880
needed were just coming into my my world

410
00:15:58,129 --> 00:15:56,339
view it says I'd go into a library and a

411
00:15:59,389 --> 00:15:58,139
book I'd be there I mean I'll give you a

412
00:16:01,490 --> 00:15:59,399
really weird story about this my wife

413
00:16:03,050 --> 00:16:01,500
was talking about getting really hacked

414
00:16:04,610 --> 00:16:03,060
off with me about the way in which I

415
00:16:05,930 --> 00:16:04,620
felt I was being guided to write this

416
00:16:08,269 --> 00:16:05,940
book and we were staying with my

417
00:16:09,769 --> 00:16:08,279
brother-in-law in Cheltenham and we went

418
00:16:11,449 --> 00:16:09,779
into this Bookshop and the Bookshop

419
00:16:13,610 --> 00:16:11,459
books were piled hives the second hand

420
00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:13,620
Bookshop and Penny turns around to me

421
00:16:16,910 --> 00:16:14,820
she goes you know the way you think

422
00:16:19,490 --> 00:16:16,920
you're being guided and I said yes and

423
00:16:20,990 --> 00:16:19,500
she said okay what kind of book do you

424
00:16:22,189 --> 00:16:21,000
need now because this is a chaos of a

425
00:16:24,410 --> 00:16:22,199
bookshelf what kind of book do you need

426
00:16:26,509 --> 00:16:24,420
let's see if it really works so I said

427
00:16:28,730 --> 00:16:26,519
funnily enough I need a biography on

428
00:16:31,370 --> 00:16:28,740
William Blake and she's standing there

429
00:16:32,689 --> 00:16:31,380
and she goes oh for Christ's sake and it

430
00:16:34,670 --> 00:16:32,699
was right in front of her in the

431
00:16:37,009 --> 00:16:34,680
bookcase and she picked it out and she

432
00:16:39,710 --> 00:16:37,019
threw it across the room in frustration

433
00:16:41,569 --> 00:16:39,720
and stormed out and that was exactly the

434
00:16:43,850 --> 00:16:41,579
book I needed and there were quotations

435
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:43,860
in there I needed I know you can add to

436
00:16:48,889 --> 00:16:45,839
this in a million different ways the

437
00:16:52,730 --> 00:16:48,899
phenomenon that you experienced is

438
00:16:55,970 --> 00:16:52,740
kind of retold dozens and dozens of time

439
00:16:58,249 --> 00:16:55,980
throughout history both with uh reading

440
00:17:01,550 --> 00:16:58,259
and literature but in science you know I

441
00:17:05,029 --> 00:17:01,560
needed the formula I needed the whatever

442
00:17:07,010 --> 00:17:05,039
you know right well it was like like you

443
00:17:09,529 --> 00:17:07,020
know needed to to understand the

444
00:17:12,049 --> 00:17:09,539
structure of benzene and he was sitting

445
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:12,059
in front of a roaring log fire has a

446
00:17:17,150 --> 00:17:14,880
hypnagogic image and sees a snake eating

447
00:17:19,549 --> 00:17:17,160
its own tail and he realized that the

448
00:17:22,429 --> 00:17:19,559
ring it was a ring structure and Benzene

449
00:17:25,909 --> 00:17:22,439
was a ring structure Max Planck when Max

450
00:17:28,189 --> 00:17:25,919
Planck in 1900 maxophone stood up in

451
00:17:32,090 --> 00:17:28,199
December 1900 and changed signs forever

452
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:32,100
uh at a meeting in in Berlin when he

453
00:17:37,130 --> 00:17:34,200
pointed out that energy came in small

454
00:17:41,210 --> 00:17:37,140
units or packages or quanta from the

455
00:17:44,029 --> 00:17:41,220
Latin and he said that that actual work

456
00:17:47,450 --> 00:17:44,039
he did was an act of desperation it was

457
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:47,460
a piece of inspiration that he just

458
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:50,400
threw the idea out like a crazy idea

459
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,559
and it was right not only that but he

460
00:17:56,750 --> 00:17:54,480
come up with this number called the

461
00:17:58,490 --> 00:17:56,760
Planck constant which is now found in

462
00:18:00,890 --> 00:17:58,500
the universe everywhere in the universe

463
00:18:02,810 --> 00:18:00,900
the plant constant is there and yet was

464
00:18:04,970 --> 00:18:02,820
an arbitrary thing he just groped out

465
00:18:07,970 --> 00:18:04,980
the air so it seems that there's a

466
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:07,980
relationship between us and the universe

467
00:18:12,890 --> 00:18:10,080
in other words when we think about the

468
00:18:14,930 --> 00:18:12,900
idea that everything is we are there's

469
00:18:16,669 --> 00:18:14,940
distance between things we know from

470
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,679
quantum physics that everything is

471
00:18:20,510 --> 00:18:18,480
entangled there's a quantum physics

472
00:18:22,610 --> 00:18:20,520
things called entanglement where if you

473
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:22,620
put two Quantum you put two Quantum

474
00:18:27,710 --> 00:18:25,200
particles like electrons or photons into

475
00:18:30,770 --> 00:18:27,720
the same Quantum state

476
00:18:32,750 --> 00:18:30,780
then you send them apart if you do one

477
00:18:34,430 --> 00:18:32,760
thing to one the other one reacts

478
00:18:37,070 --> 00:18:34,440
instantaneously

479
00:18:40,430 --> 00:18:37,080
now the world's most the the world

480
00:18:43,130 --> 00:18:40,440
should have stopped in 1981 when a guy

481
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:43,140
called Alain aspay at the The Institute

482
00:18:49,250 --> 00:18:46,080
of Optics in Paris did an experiment

483
00:18:51,230 --> 00:18:49,260
which proved non-locality he proved

484
00:18:54,169 --> 00:18:51,240
something that a guy called John Bell

485
00:18:55,610 --> 00:18:54,179
had come across come across in 1964 a

486
00:18:58,909 --> 00:18:55,620
northern Irish guy that was working at

487
00:19:02,029 --> 00:18:58,919
CERN and this proved something called uh

488
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:02,039
the Einstein Podolski Rose and Paradox

489
00:19:06,350 --> 00:19:04,320
which was written in the mid-1930s by

490
00:19:09,230 --> 00:19:06,360
Einstein and a few Associates

491
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:09,240
and it proved breaking it down that

492
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:11,280
there is no distance between things

493
00:19:16,430 --> 00:19:14,160
that we think that there's distance

494
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:16,440
but there isn't everything is a single

495
00:19:21,590 --> 00:19:19,919
single Unity now if the sub sorry

496
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:21,600
particles when they're put in close

497
00:19:27,770 --> 00:19:24,720
proximity to each other become entangled

498
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:27,780
extrapolate from that the idea that at

499
00:19:33,310 --> 00:19:30,240
the first point of the Big Bang

500
00:19:36,049 --> 00:19:33,320
with the The Singularity of the Big Bang

501
00:19:39,230 --> 00:19:36,059
every single subatomic particle that is

502
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:39,240
now in the universe was entangled in a

503
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:40,640
point particle

504
00:19:45,529 --> 00:19:44,160
13.8 that's 13.7 billion years ago right

505
00:19:48,049 --> 00:19:45,539
but but Tony we've got to be a little

506
00:19:52,010 --> 00:19:48,059
careful because that's where people kind

507
00:19:53,870 --> 00:19:52,020
of lose the idea but it it's kind of a

508
00:19:55,970 --> 00:19:53,880
bridge too far in some ways in terms of

509
00:19:58,490 --> 00:19:55,980
filling it in because what I would

510
00:20:00,049 --> 00:19:58,500
really bring it back to and again in

511
00:20:02,890 --> 00:20:00,059
compliments to you in which you do it in

512
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:02,900
the do in the book is you kind of show

513
00:20:07,970 --> 00:20:06,240
where the theory is meeting reality like

514
00:20:09,649 --> 00:20:07,980
the example you gave with bell the other

515
00:20:13,250 --> 00:20:09,659
one that that I had gone just the other

516
00:20:15,950 --> 00:20:13,260
day and Quantum Doug Metz Dr Doug

517
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:15,960
Minsky's super smart client mechanics

518
00:20:20,570 --> 00:20:17,760
and Ai and stuff like that and we were

519
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:20,580
chatting about you know there's a a

520
00:20:26,149 --> 00:20:24,240
Quantum modem now right and the Chinese

521
00:20:28,190 --> 00:20:26,159
have actually done this and they've

522
00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:28,200
demonstrated it and that always grabs

523
00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:30,480
people's attention is when it's oh

524
00:20:35,450 --> 00:20:33,120
they've engineered it so they've taken

525
00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:35,460
quantum entanglement and they've said

526
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:37,140
but if you just

527
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:39,840
take the idea that you're saying

528
00:20:42,770 --> 00:20:41,520
and like I love when you said you know

529
00:20:45,649 --> 00:20:42,780
the world should have stopped you know

530
00:20:47,870 --> 00:20:45,659
there's so many times that that there's

531
00:20:49,850 --> 00:20:47,880
so many points in the research that you

532
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:49,860
talk about when you say the world should

533
00:20:53,110 --> 00:20:51,120
have stopped the world should have

534
00:20:55,789 --> 00:20:53,120
stopped when Max Planck said

535
00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:55,799
Consciousness is fundamental I'm I'm you

536
00:21:01,250 --> 00:20:57,360
know but the world should have stopped

537
00:21:04,130 --> 00:21:01,260
finally yeah anyways the point about the

538
00:21:06,169 --> 00:21:04,140
entanglement modem that I just want to

539
00:21:10,010 --> 00:21:06,179
bring it up so people can make this as a

540
00:21:12,110 --> 00:21:10,020
touchdown if you can entangle things and

541
00:21:14,450 --> 00:21:12,120
you can manipulate one thing and then

542
00:21:16,130 --> 00:21:14,460
have the other thing change think of

543
00:21:19,070 --> 00:21:16,140
what that means for a modem because

544
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:19,080
that's what communication is about now

545
00:21:24,350 --> 00:21:22,080
they're just doing it with the keys the

546
00:21:26,750 --> 00:21:24,360
security keys but it's really the same

547
00:21:29,870 --> 00:21:26,760
thing to do with the data it's just the

548
00:21:31,850 --> 00:21:29,880
precursor but we will maybe talk about

549
00:21:35,090 --> 00:21:31,860
that in a minute but the fact that we've

550
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:35,100
taken that and now engineered that

551
00:21:40,190 --> 00:21:38,400
brings us to a different level and I

552
00:21:42,890 --> 00:21:40,200
think you're knocking on that door a lot

553
00:21:45,710 --> 00:21:42,900
and saying hey look at this research you

554
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:45,720
can't just pretend this stuff is in the

555
00:21:51,770 --> 00:21:49,440
abstract anymore but I I want to if we

556
00:21:54,830 --> 00:21:51,780
can return to something you said just a

557
00:21:56,990 --> 00:21:54,840
minute ago because it's important I

558
00:21:58,850 --> 00:21:57,000
guess when you said it I was kind of

559
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:58,860
jiggled my memory a little bit I'm not

560
00:22:02,510 --> 00:22:00,960
quite as photographically memorable to

561
00:22:06,409 --> 00:22:02,520
have the photographic memory that you do

562
00:22:07,970 --> 00:22:06,419
but the jungian angel of the library

563
00:22:10,850 --> 00:22:07,980
kind of thing

564
00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:10,860
and then what you're saying in terms of

565
00:22:15,890 --> 00:22:12,960
your experience and the experience of

566
00:22:17,090 --> 00:22:15,900
many other famous famous scientists

567
00:22:19,370 --> 00:22:17,100
throughout time you know I always think

568
00:22:20,210 --> 00:22:19,380
didn't Francis Crick have something with

569
00:22:31,130 --> 00:22:20,220
the

570
00:22:33,289 --> 00:22:31,140
coming into play but Tony tie us down

571
00:22:34,730 --> 00:22:33,299
here you're calling that you're calling

572
00:22:36,830 --> 00:22:34,740
that out and you're saying well okay

573
00:22:38,930 --> 00:22:36,840
that's how you've understood it and

574
00:22:40,909 --> 00:22:38,940
here's the demonstrated instances where

575
00:22:43,250 --> 00:22:40,919
that happened but you're attaching that

576
00:22:45,049 --> 00:22:43,260
to this idea of the Daemon aren't you I

577
00:22:47,210 --> 00:22:45,059
am and of course you know when we talk

578
00:22:48,730 --> 00:22:47,220
about young young had his own Daemon he

579
00:22:52,669 --> 00:22:48,740
called it Philemon

580
00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:52,679
and Philemon was an entity that that was

581
00:22:58,130 --> 00:22:55,200
with young for most of his life and I

582
00:23:01,490 --> 00:22:58,140
would argue that the Daemon is our own

583
00:23:02,930 --> 00:23:01,500
higher self and that we all have a Damon

584
00:23:06,529 --> 00:23:02,940
all of us

585
00:23:08,690 --> 00:23:06,539
and it depends upon whether the doors of

586
00:23:11,810 --> 00:23:08,700
perception was all the soxly call them

587
00:23:13,610 --> 00:23:11,820
are open and to the extent they are open

588
00:23:15,770 --> 00:23:13,620
is the extent in which the Daemon can

589
00:23:17,149 --> 00:23:15,780
communicate because the demon is the

590
00:23:19,669 --> 00:23:17,159
part of you that's lived your life

591
00:23:23,390 --> 00:23:19,679
before and this is profoundly important

592
00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:23,400
the Damon knows how to guide you because

593
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:25,200
it's already done it

594
00:23:30,110 --> 00:23:27,600
so when people turn around and say I had

595
00:23:32,029 --> 00:23:30,120
a precognitive dream or I had a

596
00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:32,039
precognitive Deja room

597
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:34,260
that's not you remembering that it's the

598
00:23:37,549 --> 00:23:36,000
Daemon facilitating that because the

599
00:23:40,970 --> 00:23:37,559
Damon remembers it

600
00:23:42,769 --> 00:23:40,980
it's as I in my book on Philip K dick I

601
00:23:45,049 --> 00:23:42,779
use the term the F with Philip K dick

602
00:23:47,630 --> 00:23:45,059
the man who remembered the future

603
00:23:50,810 --> 00:23:47,640
because I argue that

604
00:23:53,210 --> 00:23:50,820
we live this life more than once and

605
00:23:55,010 --> 00:23:53,220
it's a simulation or an instantation

606
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:55,020
which I think is a more formal or

607
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:58,080
accurate term because simulation gives

608
00:24:01,789 --> 00:23:59,760
the impression that it's a simulation of

609
00:24:03,890 --> 00:24:01,799
something else whereas it's not it's

610
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:03,900
it's an instantation of itself and I'm

611
00:24:07,970 --> 00:24:05,520
quoting here a guy called Dr Andrew

612
00:24:11,330 --> 00:24:07,980
Gallimore who is an associate of mine

613
00:24:14,090 --> 00:24:11,340
who lives in Okinawa in Japan who is an

614
00:24:15,769 --> 00:24:14,100
Oxford educated cybernetic engineer very

615
00:24:19,010 --> 00:24:15,779
interesting guy you must get him on your

616
00:24:20,690 --> 00:24:19,020
show his book on DMT and Altered States

617
00:24:23,570 --> 00:24:20,700
Of Consciousness is to die for it's

618
00:24:26,210 --> 00:24:23,580
brilliant but going back to it so the

619
00:24:28,070 --> 00:24:26,220
idea is that I use the the analogy and

620
00:24:29,810 --> 00:24:28,080
it's much easier as an analogy these

621
00:24:31,610 --> 00:24:29,820
days because people know it can you

622
00:24:34,730 --> 00:24:31,620
imagine that you were existing in a

623
00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:34,740
virtual reality three-dimensional

624
00:24:40,970 --> 00:24:38,640
first per third first person Viewpoint

625
00:24:42,529 --> 00:24:40,980
computer game of your life

626
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:42,539
and in that game

627
00:24:47,269 --> 00:24:45,600
it is pro the program contains the

628
00:24:48,649 --> 00:24:47,279
outcome of every decision that you can

629
00:24:51,710 --> 00:24:48,659
possibly make

630
00:24:54,289 --> 00:24:51,720
okay what you do is you switch on the

631
00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:54,299
game and literally I I use the analogy

632
00:24:58,430 --> 00:24:55,679
in one of my books and say it's as if

633
00:25:01,250 --> 00:24:58,440
you've put on a super duper feedback

634
00:25:02,330 --> 00:25:01,260
suit the tactile feeds back your

635
00:25:05,029 --> 00:25:02,340
movements

636
00:25:07,549 --> 00:25:05,039
in the game so you know rather like with

637
00:25:09,710 --> 00:25:07,559
with the new Oculus you actually see a

638
00:25:11,330 --> 00:25:09,720
pair of hands on the screen when you're

639
00:25:12,769 --> 00:25:11,340
in virtual reality which are mimicking

640
00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:12,779
the movements of your own hands it's

641
00:25:16,130 --> 00:25:14,880
quite uncanny when you do this but the

642
00:25:18,890 --> 00:25:16,140
idea is that

643
00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:18,900
you are placed in this game and the

644
00:25:22,549 --> 00:25:20,880
first life you live

645
00:25:24,110 --> 00:25:22,559
you don't have a Daemon you're a

646
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:24,120
singular Consciousness does your demon

647
00:25:27,890 --> 00:25:25,440
hasn't split off from you because you

648
00:25:30,169 --> 00:25:27,900
are the same as Jordan and at the end of

649
00:25:32,570 --> 00:25:30,179
that first life a bifurcation takes

650
00:25:36,409 --> 00:25:32,580
place at the point of death the Daemon

651
00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:36,419
and the adolon split off the edelon dies

652
00:25:41,390 --> 00:25:38,640
but the Daemon continues

653
00:25:44,510 --> 00:25:41,400
and finds itself being the game player

654
00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:44,520
of another a reboot of the game from the

655
00:25:48,409 --> 00:25:45,840
moment of birth

656
00:25:50,990 --> 00:25:48,419
and it literally is in a position where

657
00:25:52,730 --> 00:25:51,000
it sees or perceives the life of its

658
00:25:55,070 --> 00:25:52,740
idle on screen

659
00:25:56,269 --> 00:25:55,080
now you can imagine a scenario here that

660
00:25:59,090 --> 00:25:56,279
initially

661
00:26:00,769 --> 00:25:59,100
the Daemon can't really influence the

662
00:26:02,450 --> 00:26:00,779
on-screen Sprite because it's

663
00:26:04,130 --> 00:26:02,460
independent because it's to do with the

664
00:26:06,230 --> 00:26:04,140
way the brain structures to do with an

665
00:26:09,409 --> 00:26:06,240
abdominant and non-dominant hemisphere

666
00:26:12,049 --> 00:26:09,419
is the break but the idea is that

667
00:26:13,730 --> 00:26:12,059
the the on-screen Sprite saying we'll

668
00:26:15,409 --> 00:26:13,740
use Lara Croft which is a good example

669
00:26:17,570 --> 00:26:15,419
of this so you switch on the second game

670
00:26:20,090 --> 00:26:17,580
you've played the game once before so

671
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:20,100
you know the layout of the the tomb that

672
00:26:23,570 --> 00:26:21,120
she's supposed to be wandering around

673
00:26:25,789 --> 00:26:23,580
she starts running off and she goes into

674
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:25,799
a room and she gets eaten by a monster

675
00:26:29,269 --> 00:26:27,840
she gets killed she's died so she comes

676
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:29,279
back new game

677
00:26:33,110 --> 00:26:31,440
the Damon it's now the third game but

678
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:33,120
this time the Damon knows to not go in

679
00:26:37,130 --> 00:26:34,320
that room because there's a monster in

680
00:26:39,769 --> 00:26:37,140
there the skill the Damon has is how it

681
00:26:41,930 --> 00:26:39,779
communicates with its edelon to not have

682
00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:41,940
the edelon go into that room and this is

683
00:26:46,130 --> 00:26:44,279
when in life we have hunches when we

684
00:26:48,529 --> 00:26:46,140
have feelings and we meet somebody and

685
00:26:50,210 --> 00:26:48,539
you think not too sure about this person

686
00:26:52,789 --> 00:26:50,220
I believe this is what really is

687
00:26:55,850 --> 00:26:52,799
happening is that there's parts of you

688
00:26:58,370 --> 00:26:55,860
that's recognizing the situation and is

689
00:27:00,590 --> 00:26:58,380
trying to warn you now if your doors are

690
00:27:02,570 --> 00:27:00,600
perceptional vaguely open

691
00:27:05,810 --> 00:27:02,580
you'll have precognitive dreams or

692
00:27:07,370 --> 00:27:05,820
you'll have inklings or feelings but if

693
00:27:09,049 --> 00:27:07,380
your doors are perceptional wide or open

694
00:27:11,810 --> 00:27:09,059
and I argue for instance people

695
00:27:13,370 --> 00:27:11,820
experience temporalobe epilepsy

696
00:27:15,169 --> 00:27:13,380
the Daemon can communicate much more

697
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:15,179
effectively it can speak to them

698
00:27:19,370 --> 00:27:17,279
sometimes and indeed there is a friend

699
00:27:21,049 --> 00:27:19,380
of mine Myron dial who's Damon

700
00:27:22,970 --> 00:27:21,059
manifested when he was four years old

701
00:27:25,789 --> 00:27:22,980
and they've been together for the whole

702
00:27:27,769 --> 00:27:25,799
of his life he's now in his late 70s and

703
00:27:29,210 --> 00:27:27,779
his demon is called Caron which is

704
00:27:32,289 --> 00:27:29,220
interesting because it's the ferryman

705
00:27:35,810 --> 00:27:32,299
which again is fascinating and and and

706
00:27:38,450 --> 00:27:35,820
he tells me all the time about how Karen

707
00:27:40,610 --> 00:27:38,460
guides him how Karen gives him visions

708
00:27:42,830 --> 00:27:40,620
and there was one example he gave me

709
00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:42,840
where Karen gave him a vision when he

710
00:27:47,570 --> 00:27:44,880
was about 25 years old

711
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:47,580
and he saw in this vision

712
00:27:53,210 --> 00:27:50,159
an elderly man sitting in a studio

713
00:27:55,190 --> 00:27:53,220
with a pile of books notebooks red

714
00:27:57,430 --> 00:27:55,200
notebooks and he was surrounded by the

715
00:28:00,409 --> 00:27:57,440
incredible paintings and sculptures

716
00:28:02,690 --> 00:28:00,419
it was only when he was in his 60s he's

717
00:28:05,330 --> 00:28:02,700
sitting there in his room

718
00:28:07,610 --> 00:28:05,340
and he senses a presence behind him

719
00:28:09,769 --> 00:28:07,620
and he thinks oh my God looked and there

720
00:28:12,169 --> 00:28:09,779
were the red books in front of him and

721
00:28:14,810 --> 00:28:12,179
all his art was all around him and he

722
00:28:16,610 --> 00:28:14,820
realized that he'd been seeing his own

723
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:16,620
futurist Damon had given a glimpse of

724
00:28:19,610 --> 00:28:18,000
his own future

725
00:28:22,610 --> 00:28:19,620
Philip K dick had the same things

726
00:28:24,769 --> 00:28:22,620
happened to him so the idea is that the

727
00:28:28,370 --> 00:28:24,779
Daemon guides you through multiple lives

728
00:28:30,289 --> 00:28:28,380
and he it changes these these what I

729
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:30,299
call or I suppose it's like an

730
00:28:34,909 --> 00:28:32,880
evolutionary thing that you play the

731
00:28:36,350 --> 00:28:34,919
game over and over again and you follow

732
00:28:38,930 --> 00:28:36,360
different routes

733
00:28:40,430 --> 00:28:38,940
and I argue that all of this

734
00:28:43,130 --> 00:28:40,440
information

735
00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:43,140
is digitally encoded

736
00:28:47,149 --> 00:28:45,360
within the universe itself within the

737
00:28:50,029 --> 00:28:47,159
zero point field within the quantum

738
00:28:52,010 --> 00:28:50,039
vacuum it's an information field

739
00:28:54,289 --> 00:28:52,020
and all this information is held and

740
00:28:56,690 --> 00:28:54,299
it's all to do with black holes believe

741
00:28:59,330 --> 00:28:56,700
it or not and it's all to do with the

742
00:29:01,310 --> 00:28:59,340
way in which information is processed

743
00:29:03,950 --> 00:29:01,320
within black holes

744
00:29:05,330 --> 00:29:03,960
and this is why in the work in my book I

745
00:29:06,590 --> 00:29:05,340
cite the work of people like Stephen

746
00:29:15,769 --> 00:29:06,600
Hawking

747
00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:15,779
black hole and the idea is that this is

748
00:29:20,450 --> 00:29:18,960
a huge hologram we are existing within a

749
00:29:22,909 --> 00:29:20,460
huge hologram

750
00:29:25,490 --> 00:29:22,919
reality Is Not What It Seems at its

751
00:29:27,230 --> 00:29:25,500
basis everything is information and

752
00:29:28,430 --> 00:29:27,240
information that is processed by a

753
00:29:30,350 --> 00:29:28,440
consciousness

754
00:29:32,029 --> 00:29:30,360
because we know in quantum mechanics and

755
00:29:33,350 --> 00:29:32,039
quantum physics from the princess twin

756
00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:33,360
slit experiment there's a direct

757
00:29:37,010 --> 00:29:34,799
relationship between the act of

758
00:29:39,950 --> 00:29:37,020
observation and whether a subatomic

759
00:29:42,409 --> 00:29:39,960
particle is a point particle or a wave

760
00:29:43,990 --> 00:29:42,419
and the act of observation or the act of

761
00:29:46,909 --> 00:29:44,000
measurement which is the same thing

762
00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:46,919
creates from a wave which of course is

763
00:29:50,810 --> 00:29:49,380
something that is smeared out and has no

764
00:29:53,330 --> 00:29:50,820
physical presence

765
00:29:54,649 --> 00:29:53,340
to a point particle which is a point

766
00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:54,659
particle in three-dimensional space

767
00:30:02,330 --> 00:30:00,720
right but hold on hold on hold on right

768
00:30:04,130 --> 00:30:02,340
because

769
00:30:06,169 --> 00:30:04,140
again I'm going to circle back and say

770
00:30:08,750 --> 00:30:06,179
the same thing over and over again I I I

771
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:08,760
love where you're going and I love the

772
00:30:14,990 --> 00:30:11,760
launching off point which is hard

773
00:30:16,850 --> 00:30:15,000
science it kind of irrefutable

774
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:16,860
scientific truths that we found like

775
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:17,760
what you're talking about the double

776
00:30:20,990 --> 00:30:19,440
slit experiment which I always say is

777
00:30:22,970 --> 00:30:21,000
misnamed it's the Consciousness

778
00:30:25,370 --> 00:30:22,980
experiment that's what it is it's like

779
00:30:27,590 --> 00:30:25,380
does Consciousness exist answer over and

780
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:27,600
over and over again is yes but we don't

781
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:29,279
want to talk about Consciousness so

782
00:30:32,990 --> 00:30:31,679
let's talk about slits and photons and

783
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:33,000
the rest of that and that's a good way

784
00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:35,520
to kind of change the dialogue which is

785
00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:36,960
part of the social engineering project

786
00:30:41,690 --> 00:30:39,360
you know I won't go off on that rant

787
00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:41,700
that I do a million times but what I do

788
00:30:47,630 --> 00:30:44,940
want to do in the process of doing that

789
00:30:50,690 --> 00:30:47,640
you've really done a great job of

790
00:30:53,269 --> 00:30:50,700
summing up the the ferryman theory if

791
00:30:55,490 --> 00:30:53,279
you will and you're hanging a bunch of

792
00:30:58,850 --> 00:30:55,500
things off it which are tremendous and

793
00:31:00,769 --> 00:30:58,860
that's why we want people to go check

794
00:31:03,950 --> 00:31:00,779
out the book

795
00:31:06,169 --> 00:31:03,960
cheating the ferryman get it read it

796
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:06,179
it'll kind of put you right into the

797
00:31:10,730 --> 00:31:08,399
middle of this conversation what I want

798
00:31:12,169 --> 00:31:10,740
to launch into and it goes hand in hand

799
00:31:14,029 --> 00:31:12,179
we've already been doing this it's kind

800
00:31:16,789 --> 00:31:14,039
of like I said the the ghost skeptico

801
00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:16,799
but you're a grec file so you get the

802
00:31:22,909 --> 00:31:19,440
full Socratic you know Socrates was all

803
00:31:25,310 --> 00:31:22,919
about getting people together and kind

804
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:25,320
of hashing stuff out and letting the

805
00:31:30,110 --> 00:31:27,840
best ideas kind of rise to the top

806
00:31:32,210 --> 00:31:30,120
follow the data kind of thing and it's

807
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:32,220
such a beautiful thing and I I just

808
00:31:36,350 --> 00:31:34,320
can't believe how it's so lost in in our

809
00:31:38,570 --> 00:31:36,360
culture and I get it all the time

810
00:31:41,389 --> 00:31:38,580
because people are offended when you go

811
00:31:43,009 --> 00:31:41,399
you know you want to say oh well what

812
00:31:45,710 --> 00:31:43,019
about this what about that it's like oh

813
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:45,720
you're challenging my beliefs everyone's

814
00:31:50,090 --> 00:31:48,000
opinion about a flat Earth matters you

815
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,100
know it's like well no we don't really

816
00:31:54,289 --> 00:31:52,080
think that everyone's opinion matters

817
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:54,299
why do we even want to play that game so

818
00:31:59,389 --> 00:31:56,240
we're not going to play that game here

819
00:32:02,330 --> 00:31:59,399
and what I want to do

820
00:32:05,029 --> 00:32:02,340
is kind of pose a couple of questions to

821
00:32:07,789 --> 00:32:05,039
you and a lot of them uh kind of came up

822
00:32:09,230 --> 00:32:07,799
last time but because there's so much to

823
00:32:11,330 --> 00:32:09,240
what you're doing and you're exploring

824
00:32:13,850 --> 00:32:11,340
so many areas that we can't always nail

825
00:32:15,889 --> 00:32:13,860
these things to the ground so let me

826
00:32:18,049 --> 00:32:15,899
pick out a couple of them and then we'll

827
00:32:20,930 --> 00:32:18,059
see how far they go and we'll see that

828
00:32:23,450 --> 00:32:20,940
it takes us so right off the bat one of

829
00:32:26,990 --> 00:32:23,460
the things that seems to me may be a

830
00:32:30,889 --> 00:32:27,000
bridge too far is the literal idea that

831
00:32:33,889 --> 00:32:30,899
you had an original life in a real

832
00:32:35,630 --> 00:32:33,899
Universe in in a real body whatever that

833
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:35,640
means I think the rest of what you're

834
00:32:39,230 --> 00:32:37,440
saying stretches the definition of that

835
00:32:41,690 --> 00:32:39,240
original what that original physical

836
00:32:43,549 --> 00:32:41,700
reality would be but then the second

837
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:43,559
thing I'd point you to is The

838
00:32:50,570 --> 00:32:46,559
Reincarnation science you know Jim

839
00:32:51,710 --> 00:32:50,580
Tucker Ian Stevenson before that and in

840
00:32:54,610 --> 00:32:51,720
particular

841
00:32:58,190 --> 00:32:54,620
you know the research they did with the

842
00:33:00,049 --> 00:32:58,200
birthmarks that correlate to Violent

843
00:33:02,509 --> 00:33:00,059
deaths that people had in a previous

844
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:02,519
life because again let me in case people

845
00:33:07,490 --> 00:33:04,799
didn't pick up on this in cheating the

846
00:33:10,190 --> 00:33:07,500
ferryman you wouldn't have it would be a

847
00:33:12,490 --> 00:33:10,200
groundhog day situation you're coming

848
00:33:15,049 --> 00:33:12,500
back in the same you know you're playing

849
00:33:19,070 --> 00:33:15,059
the same game over and over again you're

850
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:19,080
not switching to a different body so Jim

851
00:33:23,930 --> 00:33:20,880
Tucker Ian Stevenson go out and they go

852
00:33:26,149 --> 00:33:23,940
oh no this is how it looks and you are

853
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:26,159
switching to a different body and by the

854
00:33:31,610 --> 00:33:29,279
way if you buy die a violent death then

855
00:33:34,430 --> 00:33:31,620
statistically you're more likely to

856
00:33:35,230 --> 00:33:34,440
bring along these birth birth marks as a

857
00:33:37,310 --> 00:33:35,240
physical

858
00:33:40,009 --> 00:33:37,320
manifestation of what you need to

859
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:40,019
resolve this time around how do you

860
00:33:45,230 --> 00:33:43,200
process that science well I suppose I

861
00:33:47,450 --> 00:33:45,240
don't need to because there's no science

862
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:47,460
there is no science that supports the

863
00:33:51,950 --> 00:33:49,200
idea of the transmigration of souls

864
00:33:54,230 --> 00:33:51,960
there is no science on that there's no

865
00:33:55,850 --> 00:33:54,240
signs I know there are there are there

866
00:33:56,990 --> 00:33:55,860
are stories and there are anecdotes and

867
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:57,000
there are people turning around and

868
00:34:01,009 --> 00:33:58,799
saying well you know we've got the

869
00:34:03,649 --> 00:34:01,019
evidence for this but I know no science

870
00:34:05,810 --> 00:34:03,659
that can explain how a Consciousness can

871
00:34:09,050 --> 00:34:05,820
leave the body okay let me finish here

872
00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:09,060
it's quite important okay

873
00:34:13,790 --> 00:34:11,760
if you look at reincarnation and you

874
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:13,800
look in reincarnation as it's it's

875
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:15,599
described by the various religions

876
00:34:19,790 --> 00:34:17,280
around the world you start to have

877
00:34:22,190 --> 00:34:19,800
problems okay the first one is do you

878
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:22,200
reincarnate in your own social group

879
00:34:27,649 --> 00:34:25,200
some belief you do some religious groups

880
00:34:30,169 --> 00:34:27,659
do do you reincarnate in different parts

881
00:34:32,450 --> 00:34:30,179
of the world do you reincarnate straight

882
00:34:33,889 --> 00:34:32,460
away do you reincarnate after five years

883
00:34:36,169 --> 00:34:33,899
after ten years

884
00:34:38,629 --> 00:34:36,179
they're all different every one of them

885
00:34:40,730 --> 00:34:38,639
is different from the Tlingit Indians in

886
00:34:42,530 --> 00:34:40,740
in in Seattle and and in in the

887
00:34:45,109 --> 00:34:42,540
Northwestern states of the United States

888
00:34:48,169 --> 00:34:45,119
have a completely different model of

889
00:34:51,050 --> 00:34:48,179
what reincarnation is from the Hindus

890
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:51,060
okay so there is no standardization here

891
00:34:55,430 --> 00:34:53,280
of of reincarnation because there isn't

892
00:34:57,650 --> 00:34:55,440
so we can't pretend that there is that's

893
00:35:02,450 --> 00:34:57,660
the first point the second point is more

894
00:35:03,950 --> 00:35:02,460
important is how does a physical body a

895
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:03,960
consciousness

896
00:35:08,750 --> 00:35:06,240
leave one body and then come into

897
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:08,760
another does it come in randomly is it

898
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:11,040
chosen who's doing the choosing who

899
00:35:16,250 --> 00:35:12,960
decides which body that person's gonna

900
00:35:19,130 --> 00:35:16,260
come into now I've read extensively the

901
00:35:22,490 --> 00:35:19,140
Ian Stevenson uh work it's very very

902
00:35:26,270 --> 00:35:22,500
good he's very very good but the things

903
00:35:29,390 --> 00:35:26,280
that he doesn't point out is pecuniary

904
00:35:31,370 --> 00:35:29,400
advantage in India the vast majority of

905
00:35:33,530 --> 00:35:31,380
cases of reincarnation are normally

906
00:35:35,150 --> 00:35:33,540
individuals from a lower caste who are

907
00:35:38,329 --> 00:35:35,160
claiming that a previous life was a

908
00:35:41,210 --> 00:35:38,339
higher cast you very rarely if ever get

909
00:35:43,609 --> 00:35:41,220
somebody from an upper cast claiming to

910
00:35:46,190 --> 00:35:43,619
be from a lower caste and I find that

911
00:35:49,550 --> 00:35:46,200
significant so that's that point let's

912
00:35:52,190 --> 00:35:49,560
go back then to the argument of scars

913
00:35:54,170 --> 00:35:52,200
well a I don't understand the process of

914
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:54,180
why because you get scarred in one life

915
00:36:00,530 --> 00:35:57,359
and you leave one physical body behind

916
00:36:03,950 --> 00:36:00,540
and another body is recreated randomly

917
00:36:05,930 --> 00:36:03,960
from the DNA of somebody else how that

918
00:36:07,430 --> 00:36:05,940
scar transfers from one to the other if

919
00:36:09,530 --> 00:36:07,440
that makes no sense to me I don't know

920
00:36:11,210 --> 00:36:09,540
what the process is there but more

921
00:36:13,130 --> 00:36:11,220
importantly

922
00:36:14,990 --> 00:36:13,140
if we have had multiple multiple

923
00:36:18,050 --> 00:36:15,000
multiple lives

924
00:36:20,690 --> 00:36:18,060
over thousands of years will be covered

925
00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:20,700
in scars all of us would be covered in

926
00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:22,800
scars why aren't we

927
00:36:26,630 --> 00:36:24,960
why is there only certain individuals

928
00:36:29,150 --> 00:36:26,640
have scars and I'd say that's because

929
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:29,160
it's coincidence or the scar has been

930
00:36:32,089 --> 00:36:30,960
noticed by somebody and they know that

931
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:32,099
down the road

932
00:36:38,510 --> 00:36:35,760
uh somebody was killed and what was a

933
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:38,520
symbol was a similarity between it but

934
00:36:44,450 --> 00:36:41,760
the scars aren't the same scars the

935
00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:44,460
scars in the same part of the body but

936
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:45,599
statistically that's going to happen

937
00:36:51,410 --> 00:36:48,960
anyway we have moles on our bodies you

938
00:36:53,750 --> 00:36:51,420
know presumably in my Myriad of previous

939
00:36:56,089 --> 00:36:53,760
lives that I'd have had I'd have been

940
00:36:57,470 --> 00:36:56,099
killed a million dozens of times in

941
00:37:00,230 --> 00:36:57,480
different ways

942
00:37:02,810 --> 00:37:00,240
where are my scars why do some people

943
00:37:04,970 --> 00:37:02,820
have scars and not others what more

944
00:37:07,069 --> 00:37:04,980
importantly why do some people remember

945
00:37:09,470 --> 00:37:07,079
past lives and others don't

946
00:37:11,089 --> 00:37:09,480
what is the process why is it some

947
00:37:12,890 --> 00:37:11,099
people do and some people don't and

948
00:37:14,990 --> 00:37:12,900
indeed why is it even more important

949
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:15,000
that when you do hypnotic regression to

950
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:17,280
people the vast majority of people a

951
00:37:23,089 --> 00:37:19,440
regressed to being or believe themselves

952
00:37:25,310 --> 00:37:23,099
to be Egyptian princes or or you know

953
00:37:27,530 --> 00:37:25,320
Egypt they love being Egypt it's Egypt's

954
00:37:29,870 --> 00:37:27,540
the big thing isn't it so we've got to

955
00:37:31,790 --> 00:37:29,880
look at this really more carefully I

956
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:31,800
work with recession regression

957
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:34,560
hypnotists I work with two or three of

958
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:35,520
them

959
00:37:44,089 --> 00:37:41,040
had discussions agree with me what is

960
00:37:47,329 --> 00:37:44,099
taking place here is there's the jungian

961
00:37:50,030 --> 00:37:47,339
collective unconscious which I call the

962
00:37:52,010 --> 00:37:50,040
the Uber demon which is the collective

963
00:37:53,930 --> 00:37:52,020
unconscious of all Humanity all

964
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:53,940
Humanity's experiences

965
00:37:59,030 --> 00:37:56,640
and under certain circumstances

966
00:38:02,569 --> 00:37:59,040
and every aidolonic Consciousness can

967
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:02,579
access that broader Consciousness now we

968
00:38:06,109 --> 00:38:04,560
know from hypnotism that the kind of

969
00:38:07,849 --> 00:38:06,119
people that are hypnotized are the kind

970
00:38:10,250 --> 00:38:07,859
of people who want to come across well

971
00:38:12,650 --> 00:38:10,260
we know this there's a Hypno hypnotic

972
00:38:14,990 --> 00:38:12,660
type so that person is going to try and

973
00:38:16,190 --> 00:38:15,000
draw up memories to keep the hypnotist

974
00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:16,200
happy

975
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:17,760
so in which case they're going to draw

976
00:38:21,530 --> 00:38:18,960
up memories

977
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,540
that may either be nonsense and a lot of

978
00:38:25,790 --> 00:38:23,760
them are nonsense you know even my

979
00:38:28,010 --> 00:38:25,800
friends who do this they that the vast

980
00:38:29,810 --> 00:38:28,020
majority is complete drivel

981
00:38:31,970 --> 00:38:29,820
you only ever hear of the cases when

982
00:38:35,390 --> 00:38:31,980
they can prove them you never hear the

983
00:38:37,370 --> 00:38:35,400
thousands of cases that are nonsense and

984
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:37,380
cannot okay okay hold on hold on let me

985
00:38:40,970 --> 00:38:39,359
get a chance in here okay because you're

986
00:38:42,290 --> 00:38:40,980
kind of playing a lot on the table then

987
00:38:43,730 --> 00:38:42,300
I'm going to try and respond and it's

988
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:43,740
going to be hard for people to go back

989
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:46,079
and hear the whole thing so a couple of

990
00:38:51,710 --> 00:38:49,440
things I mean the the first point that

991
00:38:55,130 --> 00:38:51,720
I'd make is that

992
00:38:58,430 --> 00:38:55,140
I think you're being a little bit unfair

993
00:39:02,210 --> 00:38:58,440
to the various ways that we do science

994
00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:02,220
science is about observation and it is

995
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:04,680
about collecting human accounts we

996
00:39:09,650 --> 00:39:06,720
accept that people experience depression

997
00:39:12,410 --> 00:39:09,660
we accept that people experience grief

998
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:12,420
our reporting on that is almost

999
00:39:16,970 --> 00:39:13,920
exclusively

1000
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:16,980
anecdotal right are you grieving okay

1001
00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:19,440
let's do this do you feel better are you

1002
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,839
depressed do you feel better and we have

1003
00:39:25,609 --> 00:39:23,760
some neurological means of doing that

1004
00:39:28,450 --> 00:39:25,619
but for the most part it is what we

1005
00:39:31,790 --> 00:39:28,460
would call anecdotal until we start

1006
00:39:34,490 --> 00:39:31,800
applying the metrics that we have in the

1007
00:39:35,930 --> 00:39:34,500
social sciences which at this point are

1008
00:39:38,930 --> 00:39:35,940
pretty well established I mean people

1009
00:39:41,569 --> 00:39:38,940
can go in and do good science about how

1010
00:39:42,530 --> 00:39:41,579
people are self-reporting about how they

1011
00:39:45,950 --> 00:39:42,540
feel

1012
00:39:47,690 --> 00:39:45,960
so that I guess is is point one I I'm

1013
00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:47,700
with you on some of what you're saying

1014
00:39:51,950 --> 00:39:49,440
you know I just did an interview with uh

1015
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:51,960
another guy you wouldn't like but he's

1016
00:39:58,190 --> 00:39:54,079
in I like everybody

1017
00:39:59,810 --> 00:39:58,200
I like debating I I I'm being facetious

1018
00:40:01,970 --> 00:39:59,820
because I think you are incredibly

1019
00:40:04,010 --> 00:40:01,980
incredibly open you know we're having

1020
00:40:06,770 --> 00:40:04,020
this conversation and I knew it would

1021
00:40:08,329 --> 00:40:06,780
not be you know any issue to just dive

1022
00:40:11,870 --> 00:40:08,339
into this this is what it's all about I

1023
00:40:15,650 --> 00:40:11,880
I got a feeling I got a feeling that you

1024
00:40:18,589 --> 00:40:15,660
do this in your head like 24 7. so I

1025
00:40:21,470 --> 00:40:18,599
don't I don't worry about it but like

1026
00:40:24,109 --> 00:40:21,480
I just interviewed again Dr Gregory

1027
00:40:26,329 --> 00:40:24,119
shushan I think is a great friend of

1028
00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:26,339
mine Greg I I Adore Greg he's been on my

1029
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:28,560
show a couple of times a great guy so

1030
00:40:35,210 --> 00:40:31,680
shared shared near-death experiences

1031
00:40:38,030 --> 00:40:35,220
across culture across time and the

1032
00:40:42,650 --> 00:40:38,040
reason I bring him up in context of this

1033
00:40:44,210 --> 00:40:42,660
is he's with you on the fact that these

1034
00:40:46,609 --> 00:40:44,220
things are not going to line up

1035
00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:46,619
perfectly the way that some people would

1036
00:40:52,430 --> 00:40:49,200
like them to do uh light and love it's

1037
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:52,440
always Jesus it's always this but in

1038
00:40:58,190 --> 00:40:56,400
some other important ways that are the

1039
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:58,200
most important that to contradict the

1040
00:41:03,890 --> 00:41:00,480
kind of mainstream materialist Paradigm

1041
00:41:06,349 --> 00:41:03,900
yes we can make some conclusions about

1042
00:41:08,569 --> 00:41:06,359
what they are experiencing in the

1043
00:41:11,089 --> 00:41:08,579
afterlife and that there is an afterlife

1044
00:41:14,450 --> 00:41:11,099
so the first thing that I point out is

1045
00:41:16,730 --> 00:41:14,460
once we once we cross that bridge and

1046
00:41:18,109 --> 00:41:16,740
say okay there is some data there then

1047
00:41:20,510 --> 00:41:18,119
we have to recognize the fact that the

1048
00:41:21,890 --> 00:41:20,520
data doesn't exactly aligned with what

1049
00:41:24,589 --> 00:41:21,900
you're saying as a matter of fact we do

1050
00:41:26,809 --> 00:41:24,599
not have any accounts that directly

1051
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,819
report what you're saying because I

1052
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:28,319
think the other thing that what

1053
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:31,440
shushan's work does is it connects us to

1054
00:41:36,290 --> 00:41:33,599
contemporary near-death experience

1055
00:41:38,569 --> 00:41:36,300
science done in hospital and there we

1056
00:41:41,690 --> 00:41:38,579
have a lot more accounts and the

1057
00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:41,700
accounts we could maybe in some cases

1058
00:41:46,370 --> 00:41:44,640
fit them back into you know retrofit

1059
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:46,380
them back into the ferryman but I don't

1060
00:41:50,569 --> 00:41:48,000
think they come that I don't think they

1061
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:50,579
come that way naturally that would be my

1062
00:41:54,349 --> 00:41:52,079
take on it we can explore that further

1063
00:41:56,210 --> 00:41:54,359
but let me because because I I kind of

1064
00:41:57,470 --> 00:41:56,220
cut you off but I don't want you to cut

1065
00:41:59,329 --> 00:41:57,480
me off until I get to this main point

1066
00:42:02,569 --> 00:41:59,339
that I was going to make about

1067
00:42:05,089 --> 00:42:02,579
Jim Tucker in The Reincarnation science

1068
00:42:07,970 --> 00:42:05,099
to me that's was I guess my main

1069
00:42:12,890 --> 00:42:07,980
pushback in what you're saying hell yes

1070
00:42:15,470 --> 00:42:12,900
it's science it is 100 science you as

1071
00:42:18,650 --> 00:42:15,480
that guy who read sociology understand

1072
00:42:20,930 --> 00:42:18,660
that the tech that the means that

1073
00:42:23,870 --> 00:42:20,940
they're going about to collect in order

1074
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:23,880
and organize uh this from uh

1075
00:42:30,109 --> 00:42:26,640
anthropological uh sociological

1076
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:30,119
standpoint is a well-worn path here's

1077
00:42:34,010 --> 00:42:32,160
how you interview people here's how you

1078
00:42:35,870 --> 00:42:34,020
control for this here's how you control

1079
00:42:38,270 --> 00:42:35,880
from that and as you mentioned you read

1080
00:42:40,370 --> 00:42:38,280
that research it is Rock Solid in terms

1081
00:42:43,849 --> 00:42:40,380
of them following that protocol then in

1082
00:42:46,670 --> 00:42:43,859
terms of the the the the the scars and

1083
00:42:49,309 --> 00:42:46,680
stuff like that I mean that really is

1084
00:42:51,309 --> 00:42:49,319
pretty pretty easy in a lot of respects

1085
00:42:54,650 --> 00:42:51,319
to say you know

1086
00:42:56,809 --> 00:42:54,660
that it it be that becomes more of a

1087
00:42:58,609 --> 00:42:56,819
straight statistics kind of thing you

1088
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:58,619
know what are the what number of people

1089
00:43:04,370 --> 00:43:01,440
have this kind of birthmark at this kind

1090
00:43:07,370 --> 00:43:04,380
of age in this kind of group and then

1091
00:43:10,370 --> 00:43:07,380
what are the chances that someone would

1092
00:43:13,250 --> 00:43:10,380
experience all these other memories and

1093
00:43:15,829 --> 00:43:13,260
would be what what number of people are

1094
00:43:18,890 --> 00:43:15,839
killed by a gunshot wound and you know

1095
00:43:20,450 --> 00:43:18,900
this and that you can run some stats and

1096
00:43:22,370 --> 00:43:20,460
they're not going to be like 100

1097
00:43:25,010 --> 00:43:22,380
accurate but you can get pretty damn

1098
00:43:27,650 --> 00:43:25,020
close and they have I think in terms of

1099
00:43:30,170 --> 00:43:27,660
saying these show some meaningful

1100
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:30,180
patterns and then the final point and

1101
00:43:35,450 --> 00:43:32,880
then I'll shut up but I think again this

1102
00:43:37,370 --> 00:43:35,460
is kind of you're making a criticism

1103
00:43:41,390 --> 00:43:37,380
that I think anyone would turn around

1104
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:41,400
and make on the ferryman in in and I

1105
00:43:45,069 --> 00:43:43,440
don't think it's fair in either case and

1106
00:43:49,130 --> 00:43:45,079
that's to say that

1107
00:43:53,450 --> 00:43:49,140
observation is in science only putting

1108
00:43:55,550 --> 00:43:53,460
forth a concrete causal effect for it is

1109
00:43:57,290 --> 00:43:55,560
the only way is the only data that

1110
00:43:59,630 --> 00:43:57,300
matters you know what I mean unless you

1111
00:44:01,430 --> 00:43:59,640
can tell me how reincarnation works and

1112
00:44:03,950 --> 00:44:01,440
the mechanics of it and how the soul

1113
00:44:06,650 --> 00:44:03,960
transfers and this and that then I'm not

1114
00:44:08,990 --> 00:44:06,660
open to listen to it and what I'd say is

1115
00:44:11,390 --> 00:44:09,000
everything that you've built on in terms

1116
00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:11,400
of Consciousness would put us outside of

1117
00:44:16,670 --> 00:44:13,920
that to begin with everything in science

1118
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:16,680
has been falsified with Mock's Planck

1119
00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:19,200
Consciousness is fundamental there is no

1120
00:44:23,569 --> 00:44:22,319
there is no real reality here like we

1121
00:44:24,770 --> 00:44:23,579
talked about in the last interview I'm

1122
00:44:26,089 --> 00:44:24,780
like you just talked about in a minute

1123
00:44:28,190 --> 00:44:26,099
ago so I think we have to be really

1124
00:44:30,530 --> 00:44:28,200
careful in saying well this is real and

1125
00:44:32,690 --> 00:44:30,540
this isn't real and realize we're kind

1126
00:44:35,690 --> 00:44:32,700
of always going to be in this kind of

1127
00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:35,700
liminal kind of in-between kind of thing

1128
00:44:41,930 --> 00:44:38,160
okay so you're good enough to love me a

1129
00:44:43,730 --> 00:44:41,940
lot of table I think the reason I take

1130
00:44:46,190 --> 00:44:43,740
the approach I do

1131
00:44:50,089 --> 00:44:46,200
is because

1132
00:44:52,970 --> 00:44:50,099
I want to engage with the Skeptics

1133
00:44:55,550 --> 00:44:52,980
I want to be in a position that the

1134
00:44:56,569 --> 00:44:55,560
Skeptics cannot whip my repeat from

1135
00:44:58,910 --> 00:44:56,579
under me

1136
00:45:01,370 --> 00:44:58,920
because Skeptics very rarely engage with

1137
00:45:04,130 --> 00:45:01,380
me they run away they don't engage with

1138
00:45:07,730 --> 00:45:04,140
me because I'm not an easy person to

1139
00:45:10,430 --> 00:45:07,740
to to Diss and to make look stupid and

1140
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:10,440
idiotic because the science I deal with

1141
00:45:15,950 --> 00:45:13,920
is based upon absolute as you say it's

1142
00:45:20,450 --> 00:45:15,960
research and it's science

1143
00:45:22,730 --> 00:45:20,460
now if I start making statements that

1144
00:45:24,770 --> 00:45:22,740
you know there's that famous cartoon

1145
00:45:26,210 --> 00:45:24,780
that really affected me many many years

1146
00:45:28,190 --> 00:45:26,220
ago you know there's a good chalkboard

1147
00:45:30,050 --> 00:45:28,200
and the scientists and they've got

1148
00:45:31,130 --> 00:45:30,060
something here and then they've got

1149
00:45:33,530 --> 00:45:31,140
something there and in the middle

1150
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:33,540
they've got a miracle happens

1151
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:36,480
to get round some of the issues in

1152
00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:40,319
science I don't do the god of the gaps I

1153
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:43,920
don't do that I try to make sure that if

1154
00:45:49,069 --> 00:45:47,280
I present something and I I present a

1155
00:45:51,470 --> 00:45:49,079
hypothesis I don't call it a theory it's

1156
00:45:53,210 --> 00:45:51,480
not a theory it's a hypothesis it may

1157
00:45:55,130 --> 00:45:53,220
not even be a hypothesis it's possibly

1158
00:45:57,890 --> 00:45:55,140
speculation

1159
00:45:59,630 --> 00:45:57,900
but what I do is I say well look this is

1160
00:46:01,550 --> 00:45:59,640
this bit of information this is this bit

1161
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:01,560
of information from this research field

1162
00:46:06,290 --> 00:46:04,079
in quantum mechanics from this research

1163
00:46:08,930 --> 00:46:06,300
field in neurology from this research

1164
00:46:11,630 --> 00:46:08,940
field in cosmology

1165
00:46:14,270 --> 00:46:11,640
if you take the facts as they stand from

1166
00:46:15,770 --> 00:46:14,280
the research what conclusions can you

1167
00:46:17,630 --> 00:46:15,780
come to

1168
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:17,640
and that's what I try to do I come from

1169
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:18,720
the science and I say well what

1170
00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:20,960
conclusions can you draw from the fact

1171
00:46:25,790 --> 00:46:23,520
that people when

1172
00:46:28,730 --> 00:46:25,800
the brain is stimulated

1173
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:28,740
in certain ways by people by external

1174
00:46:34,609 --> 00:46:30,480
forces when like for instance Wilder

1175
00:46:38,809 --> 00:46:34,619
Penfield in the 1930s to 1970s exposed

1176
00:46:40,730 --> 00:46:38,819
the human brain of of of epileptics and

1177
00:46:42,770 --> 00:46:40,740
put an electrode onto particular points

1178
00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:42,780
of the temporal lobes and when he did

1179
00:46:46,069 --> 00:46:44,640
that he was able to evoke past life

1180
00:46:50,270 --> 00:46:46,079
memories

1181
00:46:52,430 --> 00:46:50,280
three-dimensional and Vivid

1182
00:46:55,550 --> 00:46:52,440
he concluded towards the end of his life

1183
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:55,560
that the human brain records every

1184
00:46:59,930 --> 00:46:58,319
single experience and event from the

1185
00:47:00,829 --> 00:46:59,940
moment of the birth to the moment of

1186
00:47:04,370 --> 00:47:00,839
death

1187
00:47:07,010 --> 00:47:04,380
the question has to be why now on my own

1188
00:47:09,710 --> 00:47:07,020
podcast I interviewed a few months ago a

1189
00:47:12,250 --> 00:47:09,720
young lady by the name of Rebecca sharuk

1190
00:47:15,050 --> 00:47:12,260
Rebecca sharuk has Superior

1191
00:47:19,550 --> 00:47:15,060
autobiographical memory she remembers

1192
00:47:22,010 --> 00:47:19,560
every single thing in her life she also

1193
00:47:23,329 --> 00:47:22,020
remembers her dreams she remembers being

1194
00:47:25,250 --> 00:47:23,339
in the womb

1195
00:47:27,410 --> 00:47:25,260
but I don't accept these things at face

1196
00:47:29,930 --> 00:47:27,420
value so what we did was during the

1197
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:29,940
interview we I didn't tell her I was

1198
00:47:32,809 --> 00:47:30,960
going to do it I didn't tell my

1199
00:47:35,210 --> 00:47:32,819
assistant I was going to do this but I

1200
00:47:36,530 --> 00:47:35,220
know that Rebecca really likes the Harry

1201
00:47:38,089 --> 00:47:36,540
Potter books

1202
00:47:40,370 --> 00:47:38,099
now you know there's a number of Harry

1203
00:47:43,370 --> 00:47:40,380
Potter volumes now sir and my assistant

1204
00:47:46,010 --> 00:47:43,380
her daughter reads Harry Potter so Sarah

1205
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:46,020
has all the volumes of Harry Potter and

1206
00:47:49,010 --> 00:47:47,760
I said to Sarah can you pick up at

1207
00:47:50,450 --> 00:47:49,020
random one of the volumes of Harry

1208
00:47:53,329 --> 00:47:50,460
Potter's books

1209
00:47:55,069 --> 00:47:53,339
can you open a page at random and can

1210
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,079
you pick a paragraph at random and start

1211
00:48:04,430 --> 00:47:59,690
she started doing this

1212
00:48:08,109 --> 00:48:04,440
Believe It or Not Sarah read three words

1213
00:48:12,109 --> 00:48:08,119
and Rebecca repeated the whole paragraph

1214
00:48:14,510 --> 00:48:12,119
word by word absolutely Word Perfect now

1215
00:48:16,970 --> 00:48:14,520
the question here has to be what is the

1216
00:48:20,150 --> 00:48:16,980
function of this if the brain is working

1217
00:48:22,849 --> 00:48:20,160
along certain routes why what's the

1218
00:48:25,309 --> 00:48:22,859
point of remembering everything in our

1219
00:48:27,230 --> 00:48:25,319
lives if we can't recall it it's like

1220
00:48:29,690 --> 00:48:27,240
you've got the mystery you've got a

1221
00:48:32,030 --> 00:48:29,700
million dollars locked inside it's

1222
00:48:34,190 --> 00:48:32,040
locked inside of safe with the key

1223
00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:34,200
inside it makes no sense unless it

1224
00:48:40,670 --> 00:48:37,200
fulfills a purpose I have evidence in my

1225
00:48:41,930 --> 00:48:40,680
books of people who have towards the end

1226
00:48:43,609 --> 00:48:41,940
of their life

1227
00:48:44,990 --> 00:48:43,619
they when they're coming down with

1228
00:48:47,930 --> 00:48:45,000
Alzheimer's

1229
00:48:48,829 --> 00:48:47,940
they start to recall their past life in

1230
00:48:51,290 --> 00:48:48,839
detail

1231
00:48:53,630 --> 00:48:51,300
they start to go back in time they start

1232
00:48:56,450 --> 00:48:53,640
to relive earlier parts of their lives

1233
00:48:59,329 --> 00:48:56,460
as if their brain is functioning them to

1234
00:49:02,990 --> 00:48:59,339
get back to reliving their life again

1235
00:49:04,190 --> 00:49:03,000
now that's tangible proof that's not so

1236
00:49:07,210 --> 00:49:04,200
in other words I'm not turning around

1237
00:49:10,130 --> 00:49:07,220
saying I believe or I'd like to believe

1238
00:49:13,130 --> 00:49:10,140
that we live our lives again throughout

1239
00:49:16,010 --> 00:49:13,140
through memories I have the evidence for

1240
00:49:17,089 --> 00:49:16,020
it now there's can I just finish can I

1241
00:49:19,970 --> 00:49:17,099
just finish here on your final point

1242
00:49:22,490 --> 00:49:19,980
about the definition of science

1243
00:49:24,170 --> 00:49:22,500
there's a science of social sciences and

1244
00:49:25,849 --> 00:49:24,180
a social scientist I can say this the

1245
00:49:28,609 --> 00:49:25,859
social science we deal with Statistics

1246
00:49:30,170 --> 00:49:28,619
we deal with Norms we deal with means we

1247
00:49:32,270 --> 00:49:30,180
deal with you know what is the

1248
00:49:34,010 --> 00:49:32,280
statistical chance of this happening in

1249
00:49:36,049 --> 00:49:34,020
a particular way that's that's

1250
00:49:37,730 --> 00:49:36,059
scientific to an extent but if you're

1251
00:49:42,770 --> 00:49:37,740
going to convince

1252
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:42,780
a biologist of your point of view

1253
00:49:46,609 --> 00:49:44,400
there's no point in turning around and

1254
00:49:48,890 --> 00:49:46,619
saying that 90 of the population claim

1255
00:49:50,270 --> 00:49:48,900
they've had past lives that's anecdote

1256
00:49:52,430 --> 00:49:50,280
and they will just throw back at you the

1257
00:49:55,250 --> 00:49:52,440
plural of anecdote is not proof and

1258
00:49:56,930 --> 00:49:55,260
that's what I don't do what I do is I

1259
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:56,940
try to say well let's fight them at

1260
00:50:01,010 --> 00:49:58,319
their own battle

1261
00:50:03,049 --> 00:50:01,020
let's take the science and use their

1262
00:50:05,569 --> 00:50:03,059
science and put it back at them with a

1263
00:50:07,790 --> 00:50:05,579
model that they they CA they cannot

1264
00:50:10,549 --> 00:50:07,800
dispute do I deny out of the body

1265
00:50:13,970 --> 00:50:10,559
experiences no I don't do I deny past

1266
00:50:15,650 --> 00:50:13,980
lives no I don't do I do I deny you know

1267
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:15,660
the near-death experience and the

1268
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,520
typologies of the nearby experience no I

1269
00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:19,440
don't none of these things I deny

1270
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:21,660
because there's too many reports of them

1271
00:50:26,750 --> 00:50:24,720
clearly himself evidently well I didn't

1272
00:50:28,849 --> 00:50:26,760
hold on I didn't say that you denied any

1273
00:50:31,849 --> 00:50:28,859
of it I said and this is the part where

1274
00:50:34,490 --> 00:50:31,859
I I kind of think I do have to kind of

1275
00:50:36,710 --> 00:50:34,500
hone in on this I mean don't you think

1276
00:50:39,470 --> 00:50:36,720
just in the story that you just told you

1277
00:50:42,170 --> 00:50:39,480
get to a point where you're making that

1278
00:50:45,049 --> 00:50:42,180
same leap that everyone else is making

1279
00:50:47,510 --> 00:50:45,059
in terms of interpreting what the data

1280
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:47,520
that you have in a particular way and

1281
00:50:52,730 --> 00:50:49,680
you're finding it compatible with your

1282
00:50:55,490 --> 00:50:52,740
theory and I'm saying you know I don't

1283
00:50:57,230 --> 00:50:55,500
but it's not like you're not doing the

1284
00:51:00,109 --> 00:50:57,240
same thing that everyone else is doing

1285
00:51:01,790 --> 00:51:00,119
and I think it's valid I disagree I

1286
00:51:03,410 --> 00:51:01,800
disagree if somebody is saying

1287
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,420
reincarnation

1288
00:51:09,530 --> 00:51:05,760
they're not using any science they're

1289
00:51:11,390 --> 00:51:09,540
not using to Tony Tony that's not uh I I

1290
00:51:13,130 --> 00:51:11,400
just don't think let's let's put it in

1291
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:13,140
this way in the court of public opinion

1292
00:51:17,210 --> 00:51:14,640
I don't think most people would agree

1293
00:51:18,829 --> 00:51:17,220
with you if you look at Jim Tucker and

1294
00:51:20,809 --> 00:51:18,839
you look at what's the science where's

1295
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:20,819
the science engine what science is Jim

1296
00:51:24,109 --> 00:51:23,280
Tucker playing well first of all first

1297
00:51:26,030 --> 00:51:24,119
of all

1298
00:51:27,950 --> 00:51:26,040
yeah okay

1299
00:51:30,049 --> 00:51:27,960
this is where you're this is where I

1300
00:51:32,510 --> 00:51:30,059
think you're you're kind of uh not being

1301
00:51:35,930 --> 00:51:32,520
totally fair because physics wouldn't

1302
00:51:38,270 --> 00:51:35,940
apply to your story of Rebecca and her

1303
00:51:41,210 --> 00:51:38,280
recalling here it say it goes yes it

1304
00:51:44,089 --> 00:51:41,220
does because no it's your end no right

1305
00:51:46,670 --> 00:51:44,099
no it would be your it would be your

1306
00:51:48,890 --> 00:51:46,680
interpretation what is an inter I'm

1307
00:51:50,410 --> 00:51:48,900
interpreting the Rebecca remembered

1308
00:51:52,730 --> 00:51:50,420
everything

1309
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:52,740
that's an interpretation

1310
00:51:57,109 --> 00:51:55,440
okay well here's the point then again I

1311
00:51:59,930 --> 00:51:57,119
think we're I don't want to get into a

1312
00:52:01,910 --> 00:51:59,940
semantic battle but I I want a

1313
00:52:04,609 --> 00:52:01,920
interpretation you're suggesting that

1314
00:52:08,089 --> 00:52:04,619
I'll show you by I Will Show You by

1315
00:52:09,910 --> 00:52:08,099
example something so you take Jim Tucker

1316
00:52:12,770 --> 00:52:09,920
Jim Tucker University of Virginia

1317
00:52:15,609 --> 00:52:12,780
perceptual Sciences picks up Ian

1318
00:52:17,690 --> 00:52:15,619
Stevenson's work they also do a lot of

1319
00:52:19,490 --> 00:52:17,700
near-death experience science there

1320
00:52:22,430 --> 00:52:19,500
published in a lot of peer-reviewed

1321
00:52:26,690 --> 00:52:22,440
journals highly regarded University not

1322
00:52:29,089 --> 00:52:26,700
a slouchy scientist so he's he within

1323
00:52:32,210 --> 00:52:29,099
the academy is considered doing good

1324
00:52:34,790 --> 00:52:32,220
science and again he's not a meat puppet

1325
00:52:37,010 --> 00:52:34,800
uh materialist he's not a skeptic he's

1326
00:52:39,410 --> 00:52:37,020
not any of that if you look at the cases

1327
00:52:43,010 --> 00:52:39,420
that he brings forward that gain a lot

1328
00:52:45,049 --> 00:52:43,020
of traction with people like me begin

1329
00:52:46,609 --> 00:52:45,059
because he's a careful scientist and

1330
00:52:48,410 --> 00:52:46,619
there's one of his case he's one of his

1331
00:52:51,530 --> 00:52:48,420
cases the leninger case is that Jim

1332
00:52:53,329 --> 00:52:51,540
Tucker yes yeah learning a case do you

1333
00:52:54,530 --> 00:52:53,339
know the work that Michael Lee sudath

1334
00:52:57,230 --> 00:52:54,540
has written on that

1335
00:52:59,870 --> 00:52:57,240
well I I don't uh well you should well

1336
00:53:03,049 --> 00:52:59,880
you should because it destroys it I I

1337
00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:03,059
don't think that destroys it I don't I

1338
00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:05,040
don't think he does because the case you

1339
00:53:07,069 --> 00:53:05,760
don't

1340
00:53:09,710 --> 00:53:07,079
which

1341
00:53:12,650 --> 00:53:09,720
okay why how doesn't it how does how

1342
00:53:15,650 --> 00:53:12,660
does Lee sudath not destroy the learning

1343
00:53:18,650 --> 00:53:15,660
case well first of all so here I I am

1344
00:53:22,430 --> 00:53:18,660
speaking when I say like I just told you

1345
00:53:25,849 --> 00:53:22,440
I don't know his work but I know a lot

1346
00:53:29,630 --> 00:53:25,859
of cranky people that try and trash

1347
00:53:32,089 --> 00:53:29,640
people like Jim Tucker who seem from my

1348
00:53:35,030 --> 00:53:32,099
experience to be carefully doing work

1349
00:53:37,730 --> 00:53:35,040
and following their critics to the full

1350
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:37,740
extent that if I had to place my bet

1351
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:41,280
here without knowing the the cranky guy

1352
00:53:44,530 --> 00:53:43,680
who kind of pushed against it I would

1353
00:53:48,010 --> 00:53:44,540
bet

1354
00:53:51,470 --> 00:53:48,020
why let me finish

1355
00:53:53,809 --> 00:53:51,480
Tony Keith why is Tony I am happy to I'm

1356
00:53:55,849 --> 00:53:53,819
happy to to follow up once I know the

1357
00:53:57,710 --> 00:53:55,859
guys once I go know the guys well you'll

1358
00:53:58,910 --> 00:53:57,720
use the term cranky you said he was

1359
00:54:01,910 --> 00:53:58,920
cranky

1360
00:54:04,970 --> 00:54:01,920
in my experience yeah you can put it in

1361
00:54:07,309 --> 00:54:04,980
frankly yeah but probably I'd say high

1362
00:54:10,069 --> 00:54:07,319
probability of credit you need to read

1363
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:10,079
it and you need to I I do I do I do I do

1364
00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:12,480
needles I wouldn't call somebody cranky

1365
00:54:17,390 --> 00:54:14,640
if I'd not read their work you're kind

1366
00:54:19,910 --> 00:54:17,400
of trying to make like points of like

1367
00:54:22,609 --> 00:54:19,920
argumentative points rather than letting

1368
00:54:25,309 --> 00:54:22,619
no I'm not no I'm not let me turn cranky

1369
00:54:26,450 --> 00:54:25,319
over somebody who is a professor of

1370
00:54:29,530 --> 00:54:26,460
philosophy

1371
00:54:33,710 --> 00:54:29,540
at another University

1372
00:54:35,930 --> 00:54:33,720
and it is full of holes well I I will I

1373
00:54:40,450 --> 00:54:35,940
should have looked off this I tell you

1374
00:54:45,890 --> 00:54:44,329
why don't you why don't you what's his

1375
00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:45,900
name again

1376
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:49,920
uh lee sudath Michael Lee sudath how do

1377
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:57,410
s-u-d-d-i-t-h okay let's get him on oh

1378
00:55:03,770 --> 00:54:59,520
let's get him on skeptico right will you

1379
00:55:09,309 --> 00:55:07,250
I think I just suggested that so I don't

1380
00:55:12,349 --> 00:55:09,319
know I need to is an appropriate

1381
00:55:13,789 --> 00:55:12,359
response to that and we can do uh we

1382
00:55:17,510 --> 00:55:13,799
could do a full-blown kind of thing

1383
00:55:19,609 --> 00:55:17,520
because and if need be I can talk to uh

1384
00:55:21,770 --> 00:55:19,619
Jim Tucker either that would be really

1385
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:21,780
interesting if you got Jim Tucker and

1386
00:55:25,970 --> 00:55:24,480
Mike on together because they told each

1387
00:55:28,910 --> 00:55:25,980
other regularly they know each other

1388
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:28,920
very very well also so Jim Tucker has

1389
00:55:34,849 --> 00:55:31,680
rave has raised waved the white flag and

1390
00:55:38,450 --> 00:55:34,859
said I I I'm sorry the the my case is

1391
00:55:40,549 --> 00:55:38,460
wrong siddeth is right uh from my

1392
00:55:43,370 --> 00:55:40,559
readings of it he's not actually run

1393
00:55:45,109 --> 00:55:43,380
away but he's not actually contested it

1394
00:55:47,390 --> 00:55:45,119
I need to check with Mike about that

1395
00:55:49,970 --> 00:55:47,400
Mike Mike is Rich check on that an

1396
00:55:51,710 --> 00:55:49,980
academic paper on it check on that I

1397
00:55:52,910 --> 00:55:51,720
don't think Tim Tucker has backed off of

1398
00:55:54,710 --> 00:55:52,920
that would that make any difference

1399
00:55:56,630 --> 00:55:54,720
since you seem to have some respect for

1400
00:55:57,829 --> 00:55:56,640
Tucker would it make any difference I

1401
00:55:59,569 --> 00:55:57,839
have respect for both of them I have

1402
00:56:03,230 --> 00:55:59,579
respect for both of them I think both of

1403
00:56:04,789 --> 00:56:03,240
them my concern is that when you never

1404
00:56:06,650 --> 00:56:04,799
did you never did let me finish because

1405
00:56:08,690 --> 00:56:06,660
you're someone I want to make my apology

1406
00:56:11,329 --> 00:56:08,700
sorry here's the point I I wanted to

1407
00:56:13,789 --> 00:56:11,339
make is that and I don't think you're

1408
00:56:16,069 --> 00:56:13,799
you're being fair in this regard is that

1409
00:56:19,309 --> 00:56:16,079
you're countering that this isn't

1410
00:56:22,670 --> 00:56:19,319
evidence right and whether you know your

1411
00:56:25,130 --> 00:56:22,680
guy sudath has kind of shattered the

1412
00:56:27,170 --> 00:56:25,140
evidence or not we're now in the same

1413
00:56:30,530 --> 00:56:27,180
we're talking about the same thing now

1414
00:56:33,410 --> 00:56:30,540
we're talking about specific instances

1415
00:56:35,210 --> 00:56:33,420
that happened in some physical reality

1416
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:35,220
like the case that I was going to talk

1417
00:56:41,569 --> 00:56:38,400
about is Ryan in the Hollywood case you

1418
00:56:43,490 --> 00:56:41,579
know where he was a former film star in

1419
00:56:45,470 --> 00:56:43,500
Hollywood in a previous life and they go

1420
00:56:48,710 --> 00:56:45,480
back and they trace this and Jim Tucker

1421
00:56:51,650 --> 00:56:48,720
says hey there's 52 points of congruence

1422
00:56:55,069 --> 00:56:51,660
that I found it's like

1423
00:56:57,950 --> 00:56:55,079
whether you agree with his conclusions

1424
00:57:00,950 --> 00:56:57,960
or whether you agree Point by point with

1425
00:57:03,589 --> 00:57:00,960
what he's saying matches up we now have

1426
00:57:07,010 --> 00:57:03,599
a science if you will that people

1427
00:57:09,770 --> 00:57:07,020
acknowledge is a valid way to look at

1428
00:57:12,230 --> 00:57:09,780
the statistical probability that this

1429
00:57:16,309 --> 00:57:12,240
kid would have knowledge of these uh

1430
00:57:18,890 --> 00:57:16,319
past events so it in that way I I think

1431
00:57:21,230 --> 00:57:18,900
that there is a direct parallel to what

1432
00:57:23,870 --> 00:57:21,240
you're doing both are have have

1433
00:57:25,849 --> 00:57:23,880
scientific Merit to some degree and then

1434
00:57:27,289 --> 00:57:25,859
it's just a matter of hammering out you

1435
00:57:29,390 --> 00:57:27,299
know which one's better whether all the

1436
00:57:31,370 --> 00:57:29,400
facts line up whether you know this guy

1437
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:31,380
or that guy has has crushed this or that

1438
00:57:36,589 --> 00:57:33,839
but I I it seems to me like you kind of

1439
00:57:38,450 --> 00:57:36,599
dismissed this out of hand well I don't

1440
00:57:40,490 --> 00:57:38,460
it's really the same it's really the

1441
00:57:42,289 --> 00:57:40,500
same thing just said a different way in

1442
00:57:44,630 --> 00:57:42,299
terms of how you would go about how you

1443
00:57:46,609 --> 00:57:44,640
would go about quote unquote proving it

1444
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:46,619
and it's not about this isn't about

1445
00:57:51,589 --> 00:57:48,720
physics and your thing isn't about

1446
00:57:56,329 --> 00:57:51,599
physics gyms Tucker's belief that we're

1447
00:57:58,010 --> 00:57:56,339
Ryan is has this ability to recall

1448
00:58:01,010 --> 00:57:58,020
things from the past isn't he doesn't

1449
00:58:03,530 --> 00:58:01,020
need to apply an explanation regarding

1450
00:58:06,289 --> 00:58:03,540
the mechanics of how he does it in order

1451
00:58:08,569 --> 00:58:06,299
to offer us a good observation about

1452
00:58:10,730 --> 00:58:08,579
something that's happening yeah

1453
00:58:12,829 --> 00:58:10,740
observation is is profoundly important

1454
00:58:15,890 --> 00:58:12,839
in the social sciences it's extremely

1455
00:58:17,630 --> 00:58:15,900
important but you then have to go back

1456
00:58:20,930 --> 00:58:17,640
to say well what is then the mechanism

1457
00:58:22,670 --> 00:58:20,940
that's at work and again I would I would

1458
00:58:24,589 --> 00:58:22,680
suggest that the mechanism at work here

1459
00:58:26,990 --> 00:58:24,599
could just as easily be Collective

1460
00:58:29,450 --> 00:58:27,000
unconscious memory you know as I said

1461
00:58:31,789 --> 00:58:29,460
earlier on this young lad could be

1462
00:58:34,370 --> 00:58:31,799
focusing in on

1463
00:58:36,109 --> 00:58:34,380
the information field I know that the

1464
00:58:38,870 --> 00:58:36,119
the new agers call it the akashic field

1465
00:58:41,089 --> 00:58:38,880
I'd call it the zero point field whereby

1466
00:58:43,930 --> 00:58:41,099
you can pick up information from other

1467
00:58:48,289 --> 00:58:43,940
people uh we don't know that

1468
00:58:50,030 --> 00:58:48,299
well I I I tend to agree with that but

1469
00:58:51,770 --> 00:58:50,040
we don't know that on some kind of

1470
00:58:54,349 --> 00:58:51,780
physics base we don't have a mechanism

1471
00:58:56,329 --> 00:58:54,359
for a description of what it would be

1472
00:58:58,130 --> 00:58:56,339
like to have an akashic field how

1473
00:58:59,809 --> 00:58:58,140
information would flow from we don't

1474
00:59:02,450 --> 00:58:59,819
have any of that so that's what I'm

1475
00:59:05,210 --> 00:59:02,460
saying you're no we don't we were in the

1476
00:59:06,650 --> 00:59:05,220
same ballpark as everyone else no no I'm

1477
00:59:08,870 --> 00:59:06,660
not I know that's the difference there's

1478
00:59:11,930 --> 00:59:08,880
been Recent research shown to prove that

1479
00:59:15,349 --> 00:59:11,940
for instance information has mass

1480
00:59:17,450 --> 00:59:15,359
okay it's also been there's also the

1481
00:59:19,010 --> 00:59:17,460
latest research in terms of cosmology in

1482
00:59:20,030 --> 00:59:19,020
the relationship of the holographic

1483
00:59:23,690 --> 00:59:20,040
universe

1484
00:59:27,710 --> 00:59:23,700
is incredibly well-researched science

1485
00:59:29,930 --> 00:59:27,720
using known science to explain how the

1486
00:59:32,329 --> 00:59:29,940
holographic principle could work there's

1487
00:59:35,210 --> 00:59:32,339
a guy called Lee Horgan at the perimeter

1488
00:59:37,490 --> 00:59:35,220
Institute in Canada who's doing work on

1489
00:59:39,230 --> 00:59:37,500
trying to work out the pixelation

1490
00:59:41,630 --> 00:59:39,240
of the program

1491
00:59:44,569 --> 00:59:41,640
you know this is science you know there

1492
00:59:47,150 --> 00:59:44,579
was a front page of Scientific American

1493
00:59:49,549 --> 00:59:47,160
a few years ago is reality a hologram

1494
00:59:51,650 --> 00:59:49,559
there's actually a science called the

1495
00:59:54,230 --> 00:59:51,660
holographic principle

1496
00:59:55,609 --> 00:59:54,240
but but they haven't I'll give you an

1497
00:59:56,930 --> 00:59:55,619
example of science when we talk about

1498
00:59:58,130 --> 00:59:56,940
science what we're really talking about

1499
01:00:00,770 --> 00:59:58,140
I think in the way that most people

1500
01:00:02,150 --> 01:00:00,780
think about it is not scientific theory

1501
01:00:03,950 --> 01:00:02,160
but they're really talking about

1502
01:00:06,530 --> 01:00:03,960
engineering so that's when we talk about

1503
01:00:09,170 --> 01:00:06,540
entanglement okay show me the quantum

1504
01:00:11,690 --> 01:00:09,180
modem and now you got my attention I'm

1505
01:00:12,890 --> 01:00:11,700
not a big fan of uh Dr Gary Schwartz at

1506
01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:12,900
the University of Arizona and I

1507
01:00:16,849 --> 01:00:15,359
shouldn't say that I'm a huge fan of Dr

1508
01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:16,859
Gary Schwartz at the University of

1509
01:00:22,250 --> 01:00:19,680
Arizona I think his project with the

1510
01:00:25,490 --> 01:00:22,260
soul phone I wish him the best of luck

1511
01:00:28,609 --> 01:00:25,500
and I certainly hope it works out but I

1512
01:00:30,470 --> 01:00:28,619
I don't really to me it seems a little

1513
01:00:32,870 --> 01:00:30,480
bit flawed in the way that they're going

1514
01:00:34,130 --> 01:00:32,880
about that but but but it's interesting

1515
01:00:36,950 --> 01:00:34,140
I don't want to bury I don't want to

1516
01:00:39,950 --> 01:00:36,960
bury the lead the point is they are

1517
01:00:42,109 --> 01:00:39,960
trying to engineer this in a way that

1518
01:00:45,670 --> 01:00:42,119
would answer these questions and if you

1519
01:00:48,770 --> 01:00:45,680
will that to me would offer some kind of

1520
01:00:50,690 --> 01:00:48,780
proof of what they're talking about in

1521
01:00:53,089 --> 01:00:50,700
terms of after death communication it

1522
01:00:55,309 --> 01:00:53,099
would be you you you would but you would

1523
01:00:57,710 --> 01:00:55,319
still be in the same boat Tony I don't

1524
01:01:00,950 --> 01:00:57,720
know you could then you could then take

1525
01:01:03,589 --> 01:01:00,960
their data and interpret it as Damon

1526
01:01:05,289 --> 01:01:03,599
ferryman higher self whatever and

1527
01:01:08,270 --> 01:01:05,299
another guy could interpret it as

1528
01:01:10,549 --> 01:01:08,280
demonic akashic record with the spirit

1529
01:01:13,609 --> 01:01:10,559
in between and no one would have a

1530
01:01:15,650 --> 01:01:13,619
better standing in on that than the

1531
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:15,660
other one It all becomes speculative at

1532
01:01:20,690 --> 01:01:18,000
a point so we're trying to merge it but

1533
01:01:23,809 --> 01:01:20,700
I mean there's always going to be these

1534
01:01:26,390 --> 01:01:23,819
huge gaps where we need uh constructive

1535
01:01:28,069 --> 01:01:26,400
theories that don't necessarily line up

1536
01:01:30,470 --> 01:01:28,079
with each other I mean take Jill I'll

1537
01:01:33,410 --> 01:01:30,480
shut up but take Julie Beisel who I've

1538
01:01:35,690 --> 01:01:33,420
always been a big fan of and been on the

1539
01:01:37,670 --> 01:01:35,700
show in after death communication

1540
01:01:39,289 --> 01:01:37,680
she got a PhD in pharmacologist she

1541
01:01:41,390 --> 01:01:39,299
knows how to do that she's not

1542
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:41,400
she's not making mistakes in her

1543
01:01:45,589 --> 01:01:43,440
research and she's validating after

1544
01:01:48,049 --> 01:01:45,599
death communication and that after death

1545
01:01:49,910 --> 01:01:48,059
communication does not conform with the

1546
01:01:51,470 --> 01:01:49,920
ferryman theory so what do you do with

1547
01:01:53,630 --> 01:01:51,480
that you just step over it and say that

1548
01:01:55,970 --> 01:01:53,640
isn't science I don't know it's the same

1549
01:01:58,130 --> 01:01:55,980
way we figure out you know whether a

1550
01:01:59,329 --> 01:01:58,140
drug is good to use I thought I think

1551
01:02:01,730 --> 01:01:59,339
one of the things you're missing here

1552
01:02:04,370 --> 01:02:01,740
and it's a very important point

1553
01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:04,380
cheating The ferryman Works in a brain

1554
01:02:08,510 --> 01:02:06,480
that hasn't died

1555
01:02:10,609 --> 01:02:08,520
there might be after death

1556
01:02:12,829 --> 01:02:10,619
though it could be after death

1557
01:02:14,690 --> 01:02:12,839
within you know the idea isn't this

1558
01:02:16,849 --> 01:02:14,700
people misunderstand this they think

1559
01:02:18,470 --> 01:02:16,859
that and it's because my Publishers use

1560
01:02:20,510 --> 01:02:18,480
the term life after death and everything

1561
01:02:21,289 --> 01:02:20,520
and it's always quite irritated me over

1562
01:02:23,569 --> 01:02:21,299
this

1563
01:02:24,770 --> 01:02:23,579
it takes place in the final seconds of

1564
01:02:27,049 --> 01:02:24,780
your life

1565
01:02:30,410 --> 01:02:27,059
and then in microseconds

1566
01:02:33,109 --> 01:02:30,420
of your life okay so at the end of all

1567
01:02:35,930 --> 01:02:33,119
of that just like Connors in Groundhog

1568
01:02:37,670 --> 01:02:35,940
Day moves on to the next day I'd argue

1569
01:02:39,770 --> 01:02:37,680
that Within

1570
01:02:42,470 --> 01:02:39,780
cheating the ferryman you eventually

1571
01:02:45,289 --> 01:02:42,480
move on and you move on to whatever you

1572
01:02:48,710 --> 01:02:45,299
move on to because in terms of time it's

1573
01:02:52,190 --> 01:02:48,720
all happened in in a constricted part of

1574
01:02:54,049 --> 01:02:52,200
time at the end of life now again using

1575
01:02:55,970 --> 01:02:54,059
parallels and I know that it's it's not

1576
01:02:58,010 --> 01:02:55,980
fair of me to use the parallel here but

1577
01:03:00,349 --> 01:02:58,020
because it's a religious parallel but

1578
01:03:03,109 --> 01:03:00,359
you read up the Bordeaux state

1579
01:03:04,849 --> 01:03:03,119
in in tibetan Buddhas what takes place

1580
01:03:07,789 --> 01:03:04,859
there is that it's the kind of

1581
01:03:10,370 --> 01:03:07,799
transitory point between moving on to

1582
01:03:13,190 --> 01:03:10,380
your next Incarnation as it were because

1583
01:03:14,750 --> 01:03:13,200
for instance I don't understand if

1584
01:03:16,309 --> 01:03:14,760
there's afterlife communication with

1585
01:03:17,809 --> 01:03:16,319
dead people how does that square

1586
01:03:20,089 --> 01:03:17,819
reincarnation

1587
01:03:21,950 --> 01:03:20,099
if everybody's reincarnated they're

1588
01:03:23,450 --> 01:03:21,960
recreientated as different people Sarah

1589
01:03:25,849 --> 01:03:23,460
doesn't have to doesn't have to square

1590
01:03:27,370 --> 01:03:25,859
right that's what we're saying well

1591
01:03:29,750 --> 01:03:27,380
they're both the same so both happen

1592
01:03:31,549 --> 01:03:29,760
reincarnation and people going to heaven

1593
01:03:33,309 --> 01:03:31,559
and communicating through mediums

1594
01:03:36,890 --> 01:03:33,319
happens

1595
01:03:39,589 --> 01:03:36,900
as we as we head around the curve and

1596
01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:39,599
head towards uh towards home here I want

1597
01:03:42,950 --> 01:03:41,520
to say like I want to point out one

1598
01:03:44,750 --> 01:03:42,960
thing that you just mentioned that is

1599
01:03:47,690 --> 01:03:44,760
like back to the beginning of back what

1600
01:03:49,210 --> 01:03:47,700
I love about your work I was like the

1601
01:03:53,029 --> 01:03:49,220
point you just made

1602
01:03:54,410 --> 01:03:53,039
is something that really sent me in a

1603
01:03:56,690 --> 01:03:54,420
whole different direction Paradigm

1604
01:03:59,270 --> 01:03:56,700
change I was like drop the mic this guy

1605
01:04:00,710 --> 01:03:59,280
is really and it's it's great here's the

1606
01:04:05,329 --> 01:04:00,720
point that you just made

1607
01:04:07,970 --> 01:04:05,339
is that if you accept there is uh

1608
01:04:10,609 --> 01:04:07,980
non-space non-time non-locality outside

1609
01:04:13,609 --> 01:04:10,619
of space outside of time

1610
01:04:16,309 --> 01:04:13,619
then you have to be open to the

1611
01:04:18,529 --> 01:04:16,319
possibility that

1612
01:04:21,589 --> 01:04:18,539
everything can happen

1613
01:04:23,990 --> 01:04:21,599
in a nanosecond everything that that

1614
01:04:26,750 --> 01:04:24,000
you're talking about and and this is you

1615
01:04:28,609 --> 01:04:26,760
this is Tony Peak talking about an

1616
01:04:30,589 --> 01:04:28,619
explanation for near-death experience an

1617
01:04:33,410 --> 01:04:30,599
explanation I don't White

1618
01:04:35,630 --> 01:04:33,420
agree with them 100 but I think it's

1619
01:04:38,029 --> 01:04:35,640
undeniable where you've taken us there

1620
01:04:41,390 --> 01:04:38,039
and where you've kind of uh

1621
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:41,400
Propel this into just like your work in

1622
01:04:46,010 --> 01:04:43,200
understanding extended Consciousness

1623
01:04:47,870 --> 01:04:46,020
Realms so I I just want to bring it back

1624
01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:47,880
because I want to know where else you're

1625
01:04:52,370 --> 01:04:49,920
going and what else you're doing and I

1626
01:04:53,750 --> 01:04:52,380
want to wrap this diet algorithm we'll

1627
01:04:57,230 --> 01:04:53,760
have to have another one but I want

1628
01:04:59,510 --> 01:04:57,240
people to know how I balance these two

1629
01:05:01,670 --> 01:04:59,520
things in saying hey I don't agree with

1630
01:05:04,010 --> 01:05:01,680
this guy on everything but this guy is

1631
01:05:06,950 --> 01:05:04,020
so Cutting Edge he's got so many great

1632
01:05:08,690 --> 01:05:06,960
ideas and is synthesizing so much great

1633
01:05:10,069 --> 01:05:08,700
research that we really really have to

1634
01:05:12,289 --> 01:05:10,079
listen to him and pay attention do you

1635
01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:12,299
know what you know what I like about you

1636
01:05:16,849 --> 01:05:14,880
you're the only person that interviews

1637
01:05:20,150 --> 01:05:16,859
me that challenges me properly

1638
01:05:21,950 --> 01:05:20,160
that really makes me think puts me on

1639
01:05:23,329 --> 01:05:21,960
the spot and this is what I do with my

1640
01:05:24,589 --> 01:05:23,339
friends and this is what you normally do

1641
01:05:26,210 --> 01:05:24,599
when you're down the pub arguing ideas

1642
01:05:27,770 --> 01:05:26,220
and this is what I love about your work

1643
01:05:30,109 --> 01:05:27,780
and this is what I love about what you

1644
01:05:32,809 --> 01:05:30,119
do you really know your stuff

1645
01:05:35,210 --> 01:05:32,819
and it's great because great things

1646
01:05:37,069 --> 01:05:35,220
happen when Minds like you and I and

1647
01:05:39,950 --> 01:05:37,079
various other people we sit around and

1648
01:05:41,690 --> 01:05:39,960
we debate round the subject we come

1649
01:05:43,670 --> 01:05:41,700
round and we appreciate each other's

1650
01:05:46,130 --> 01:05:43,680
position and we discuss each other's

1651
01:05:47,450 --> 01:05:46,140
position it's profoundly important and

1652
01:05:49,370 --> 01:05:47,460
indeed that's the route where I'm going

1653
01:05:52,609 --> 01:05:49,380
to be going with my work now I I feel

1654
01:05:54,529 --> 01:05:52,619
that I've probably completed my book

1655
01:05:57,710 --> 01:05:54,539
cycle I don't think I've got anything

1656
01:05:59,750 --> 01:05:57,720
really more to say I'm thinking

1657
01:06:02,450 --> 01:05:59,760
um probably writing maybe some more

1658
01:06:05,630 --> 01:06:02,460
biographies uh possibly I'm also

1659
01:06:08,630 --> 01:06:05,640
debating with a A friend of mine who's

1660
01:06:10,250 --> 01:06:08,640
got a PhD in in William Shakespeare of

1661
01:06:11,089 --> 01:06:10,260
doing a book on Shakespeare in the

1662
01:06:13,970 --> 01:06:11,099
occult

1663
01:06:15,950 --> 01:06:13,980
maybe and also I'm working with a couple

1664
01:06:17,750 --> 01:06:15,960
of Associates where we're working on

1665
01:06:20,630 --> 01:06:17,760
maybe a recreation of the Philip

1666
01:06:24,529 --> 01:06:20,640
experiment took place in Toronto in uh

1667
01:06:26,450 --> 01:06:24,539
in 1970. wow that would be that's scary

1668
01:06:29,089 --> 01:06:26,460
isn't it does that it is sad aloshing

1669
01:06:30,710 --> 01:06:29,099
with the aggregorials again and also I'm

1670
01:06:32,150 --> 01:06:30,720
working very closely with Associates of

1671
01:06:33,650 --> 01:06:32,160
mine again somebody you need to get on

1672
01:06:35,870 --> 01:06:33,660
your show and some Anthony treasure

1673
01:06:38,210 --> 01:06:35,880
who's doing some fascinating work with

1674
01:06:41,089 --> 01:06:38,220
her new book which will be out next year

1675
01:06:43,430 --> 01:06:41,099
on non-standard ghosts and I'm really

1676
01:06:45,950 --> 01:06:43,440
interested in this idea of of ghosts

1677
01:06:48,230 --> 01:06:45,960
that are like cartoon ghosts or physical

1678
01:06:50,690 --> 01:06:48,240
objects that you see as ghosts

1679
01:06:52,490 --> 01:06:50,700
and also I'm also keen on actually

1680
01:06:54,710 --> 01:06:52,500
taking the idea of the Daemon further

1681
01:06:57,770 --> 01:06:54,720
and trying to do some experiments really

1682
01:06:59,750 --> 01:06:57,780
to to really get into the idea of how we

1683
01:07:01,849 --> 01:06:59,760
can develop it as well so a lot of

1684
01:07:03,049 --> 01:07:01,859
exciting things going on we ought to do

1685
01:07:05,990 --> 01:07:03,059
some of that we ought to do some of

1686
01:07:07,609 --> 01:07:06,000
these shows together we did

1687
01:07:10,069 --> 01:07:07,619
what a question

1688
01:07:13,010 --> 01:07:10,079
Alex that would be brilliant because

1689
01:07:15,410 --> 01:07:13,020
it's kind of point to Counterpoint

1690
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:15,420
and it it works you know the way the old

1691
01:07:20,990 --> 01:07:18,000
Socratic dialogues you know its thesis

1692
01:07:22,190 --> 01:07:21,000
antithesis synthesis exactly that's what

1693
01:07:25,329 --> 01:07:22,200
we're doing that's what we were just

1694
01:07:30,829 --> 01:07:29,029
exactly and I do I think I'm hoping that

1695
01:07:33,710 --> 01:07:30,839
you know if we hash it out we can kind

1696
01:07:36,650 --> 01:07:33,720
of model for people that it isn't the

1697
01:07:40,670 --> 01:07:36,660
debate as much as it is uh

1698
01:07:42,529 --> 01:07:40,680
you know sharing of information that

1699
01:07:44,510 --> 01:07:42,539
pulls something down so that it can be

1700
01:07:46,849 --> 01:07:44,520
replaced by something else not to just

1701
01:07:48,710 --> 01:07:46,859
you know do that so yeah we should see

1702
01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:48,720
if we could even we'll we could even

1703
01:07:53,990 --> 01:07:51,839
think of some ways to uh to reinforce

1704
01:07:55,609 --> 01:07:54,000
that that is the principle of it so we

1705
01:07:58,370 --> 01:07:55,619
should do that I'd love to do it on

1706
01:08:00,109 --> 01:07:58,380
skeptical thought that I did we should

1707
01:08:01,430 --> 01:08:00,119
absolutely do it on skeptico and you

1708
01:08:03,230 --> 01:08:01,440
know what it makes me think of and I

1709
01:08:05,690 --> 01:08:03,240
wanted to touch on this before we Before

1710
01:08:07,730 --> 01:08:05,700
I Let You Go the last time we talked

1711
01:08:09,109 --> 01:08:07,740
this is such a cool thing I don't know

1712
01:08:10,910 --> 01:08:09,119
if you're able to do it because the

1713
01:08:12,650 --> 01:08:10,920
whole pandemic thing happened but you're

1714
01:08:14,809 --> 01:08:12,660
going to do the Plato's Cave thing in

1715
01:08:16,910 --> 01:08:14,819
Greece did that never did that ever come

1716
01:08:18,410 --> 01:08:16,920
about still working on it we're still

1717
01:08:20,450 --> 01:08:18,420
planning it I've just come back from

1718
01:08:23,209 --> 01:08:20,460
Athens I was in Athens a few weeks ago

1719
01:08:25,970 --> 01:08:23,219
and we're still very keen to do it yeah

1720
01:08:28,849 --> 01:08:25,980
we we feel we do something extraordinary

1721
01:08:29,990 --> 01:08:28,859
there and maybe do it as a a film as

1722
01:08:32,030 --> 01:08:30,000
well you know because we're thinking of

1723
01:08:34,729 --> 01:08:32,040
using drones and everything else as well

1724
01:08:36,530 --> 01:08:34,739
so yeah we really really want to do that

1725
01:08:37,610 --> 01:08:36,540
and we need to convince the Greek

1726
01:08:39,890 --> 01:08:37,620
government that it's something we want

1727
01:08:42,530 --> 01:08:39,900
to do but my Greek publisher is now I've

1728
01:08:44,450 --> 01:08:42,540
now got two books out in Greek he's very

1729
01:08:46,669 --> 01:08:44,460
keen on trying to help us out with this

1730
01:08:48,470 --> 01:08:46,679
as well so if anybody's interested or or

1731
01:08:49,910 --> 01:08:48,480
anything else please let us know because

1732
01:08:52,309 --> 01:08:49,920
this this is going to be really cool

1733
01:08:54,349 --> 01:08:52,319
really really cool I'm interested I

1734
01:08:56,149 --> 01:08:54,359
might come over firstly you're with it

1735
01:08:59,870 --> 01:08:56,159
so the lack of your fathers you know why

1736
01:09:02,329 --> 01:08:59,880
not what uh why not absolutely

1737
01:09:04,610 --> 01:09:02,339
Alex it's always wonderful to talk to

1738
01:09:05,990 --> 01:09:04,620
you I really really really buzz when we

1739
01:09:07,669 --> 01:09:06,000
finish doing our chats I just really

1740
01:09:09,410 --> 01:09:07,679
buzz and I go I should have said that or

1741
01:09:11,570 --> 01:09:09,420
I should have said that and that's the

1742
01:09:13,910 --> 01:09:11,580
mark of a good dynamic

1743
01:09:16,010 --> 01:09:13,920
absolutely Turner you're fantastic we

1744
01:09:19,809 --> 01:09:16,020
will do it again we will we will create

1745
01:09:23,329 --> 01:09:19,819
the the new agriculturals

1746
01:09:26,749 --> 01:09:23,339
okay my friend okay okay Alex take care

1747
01:09:29,329 --> 01:09:26,759
okay bye thanks again to Anthony Peak

1748
01:09:31,910 --> 01:09:29,339
for joining me today on skeptico by the

1749
01:09:33,829 --> 01:09:31,920
way if you're wondering and I hope you

1750
01:09:35,030 --> 01:09:33,839
are wondering what's the point if you're

1751
01:09:39,110 --> 01:09:35,040
not wondering

1752
01:09:44,090 --> 01:09:39,120
yeah sarath is just a cranky skeptic and

1753
01:09:46,789 --> 01:09:44,100
Jim Tucker destroys him in his response

1754
01:09:49,669 --> 01:09:46,799
anyways that'll be something we can if

1755
01:09:51,050 --> 01:09:49,679
you like hash out in the Forum that'll

1756
01:09:53,030 --> 01:09:51,060
be the question

1757
01:09:57,050 --> 01:09:53,040
who do you think is right

1758
01:10:00,709 --> 01:09:57,060
Tucker versus suddath and then why is

1759
01:10:03,470 --> 01:10:00,719
Anthony Tony peek taking sides with

1760
01:10:06,709 --> 01:10:03,480
suddath there's no way that sudaf would

1761
01:10:08,270 --> 01:10:06,719
ever support his ferryman theory there's

1762
01:10:11,570 --> 01:10:08,280
just no way because he's a cranky

1763
01:10:14,390 --> 01:10:11,580
skeptic so why is he championing the guy

1764
01:10:16,310 --> 01:10:14,400
it's it's the bro if Nava is going to

1765
01:10:18,830 --> 01:10:16,320
answer my own question but I won't

1766
01:10:23,010 --> 01:10:18,840
come to the Forum answer it for me